Bullet2 Waterproof question...

[stojke]

Hi, i bought 10 pcs of bullet 2 and bullet 5. I read on forum that u tested it in water for few seconds and everything went ok. I have 2 question:
1. Is connector also waterproof or only device?
2. I have a waveguide 2.4ghz which has N female connector 90 degres angle, so if i connect bullet he will be in horizontal position. Is this gona be a problem or i must use patch cable.

Thanks...

[WHT]

RF connector is at least IP65 and the bottom ethernet gland is IP64 rated. I don't think you'll encounter an IP66 situation. I would not mount the unit upside down with the etherent port pointing up, I would mount it horizontal or pointing down.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello,

Horizontal positions of the unit will be fine. Do not mount the unit upside down.

Thanks,

Mike

[tarvid]

We put a Bullet2HP up 10 days ago. It stopped working today. Open the Ethernet gland and water poured out. One RJ45 socket pin was burned off, two others damaged.

It has been raining hard for much of the 10 days. Did have a 2" PVC cap installed as a drip cap. Gland worked because it retained water.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello Tarvid,

Do you know where the water got into the unit from? Can you post up pictures please?

Thanks,

Mike

[tarvid]

I can't even imagine how that much water could have entered but if I had to guess I would say the Ethernet gland. The N connector looked dry. There was enough water to submerge the RJ45 jack on the board.

One of the connectors had broken off (one of the RX pair) and two of the power connectors were black. The TX connectors worked longer than the RX. We could observe the arp requests but the controller apparently never saw a response.

The design looks superior in every way. A cross threaded Ethernet cap might explain the results. If the top of the cap were below the RJ45 jack, water might escape the same way it got in. A weep hole in the bottom of the cap would serve the same purpose.

Jim

[carrasco]

Hello,

One suggestion for UBNT.

Why do not modify the RJ45 termination for the Bullet body as shown in the following picture:
http://sites.google.com/site/carrascou/Home/comparison1.jpg

Then, it's up to us if we continue utilizing the 'white' cap provided (also modified) or spending some extra bucks to terminated like this:
http://sites.google.com/site/carrascou/Home/comparison2.jpg

Sorry for the large pictures...

Carrasco

[WHT]

Have you looked at the price for water proof connectors??? That would add $30 to the cost.

I don't recall the details...did you have it mounted horizontally of length wise?

I can't imagine how water got up past the gland if it was mounted vertically and if you had a drip loop on the CAT5 before it went into the gland.

If mounting sideways, was there a drip loop? How about a plastic wire tie to catch the water first and divert it down. And a rain shield...if nothing more than a short length of grey outdoor electric conduit PVC pipe.

The gland looks like its threaded with the ridges, but it really doesn't thread or screw into the plastic cover.

[sxpert]

Hello,

http://sites.google.com/site/carrascou/Home/comparison2.jpg

Sorry for the large pictures...

Carrasco

hello...
this picture shows where the bug in the installation is.
the plastic cable holder at the back of the RJ45 connector prevents the white silicon gasket to be properly set up at the back of the gland...
you need to use a basic plug with no cable holder part.
also, you could add some 3M 130C self-healing rubber tape around the area of the gland.

[WHT]

I don't recall the details...did you have it mounted horizontally of length wise?

[bearb319]

We lost a bullet2 to snow/ice two months ago. Had been in service about 2 months. From what we can tell, it sucked up into the RF connector and then into the unit. The small flanges on the side means it is difficult to waterproof the RF connector. The unit was mounted RF side on top.

Barry

[WHT]

Can you get a picture with some arrows pointing to what you are talking about.

I've had a Bullet 5 outdoors on my fence since late last summer and have had no problems.

[UBNT-Robert]

Guys --

As you pointed out, the bullet optional gasket will not fit over the common pre-made RJ45 "neck" type cables.

This was a known design trade-off.

If using with these cable types, the Bullet must be orientated vertically. It will be weatherproof in this case.



Robert

[InoX]

thats really stupid man...make your own cable don't use premade pathcords :lol: :lol: :lol:

[carrasco]

As you pointed out, the bullet optional gasket will not fit over the common pre-made RJ45 "neck" type cables.

This was a known design trade-off.

It makes sense.

Why the bullet was not designed with some standard waterproof RJ45 connector design like the showed in the 1st pic? What was the trade-off in this case?

Thanks,
Carrasco

[samcamfilms]

Best Advice.

"Tape it Regardless"

Install i did today for Kia Motors

I recycle and refurbish old washing lines for masts :)


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/678/1002450s.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9659/1002452d.jpg
Yes the signal is red, because laptop was still connected in car in the other direction lol.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Looks good!

[eatmoresoap]

I have been looking at these pictures and reading the posts and no one has mentioned the obvious, where is the outdoor rated waterproof cable? If you used the proper cable you would have a nice UV rated, sheilded and flooded cable with a connector that you have crimped on the end all by yourself which would leave plenty of room for the silcone plug to fully seat and seal the unit. The quality of the installation has much to do with the weatherizing of any radio as the engineering and manufacturing does. These INDOOR cables are very much capable of wicking the moisture all the way up to the connector and inside the radio itself.

That split silicone seal in one of the pictures is a dead givaway that this unit was designed to have the cable threaded through the seal and then the connector crimped on. This installer decided to use an indoor patch cable with a boot and had to split the silicone gasket in order to get the connector with boot through it. That seal is now compromised compounded with it not being able to be seated inside the cap and then to make matters worse, an inferior cable not suited for the environment that it is in is thrown into the mix. That's 3 strikes and none of them are a defect from the facoty but a defect in the installation. These units are very well made and with some thinking, they will indeed be 100% watertight. To the person who used what looks to be vapor wrap on the N connector, that is a quality install step that needs to be followed all the way to the AP or the CPE entry point.

Indoor patch cables........... This isn't high school, people!

[agsweeney]

That split silicone seal in one of the pictures is a dead givaway that this unit was designed to have the cable threaded through the seal and then the connector crimped on. This installer decided to use an indoor patch cable with a boot and had to split the silicone gasket in order to get the connector with boot through it. That seal is now compromised.......

The seal is split from the factory - he did not cut it.

[WHT]

That split silicone seal in one of the pictures is a dead givaway that this unit was designed to have the cable threaded through the seal and then the connector crimped on.
Ummm...sorry, its is designed to be split open. If you take a brand new plug out of the box and carefully look around the edge, you will indeed see the frangible partial slit the is designed to be split open .

[WHT]

And there is absolutely no reason to use "flooded" or gel-filled cable for an outdoor installation. The gel eventually will seep down into whatever the jack is plugged into.

How many decades have you been working with gel-filled cable?

[Dave-D]

That silicone gland that's shipped with the
Bullet is clearly important to waterproofing.

And the strain relief on the pre-made CAT5
cable is clearly preventing the gland from
seating into the Bullet.

If you insist on pre-made cables, why not
simply clip away the strain relief? It's only
plastic, and removing it doesn't disturb the
connection at all. You don't need strain
relief, because there's no bending here.

Are these cables shielded? They should be. Dave

[Dave-D]

WHT, I made a big deal out of using flooded CAT5.
But the cable maker said their double-jacketed
cable was as good, so they talked me out of it.

But I still don't understand why gel migration is
a bad thing. It's a dialectric silicone grease, so
I'd guess a little on the connectors would help
keep water and corrosion out. No?

And I also recoiled at the charge for waterproof
cable assemblies. It's ridiculous to pay over $10
for a simple assembly like that; should be about
$2. Does anybody have a direct source? Dave

[Dave-D]

Hey samcamfilms

Not to be too picky, but I notice that your
'laundry pole' installation uses only a single,
dinky cable tie on the Bullet. That could
loosen and slip in wind and rain.

But worse, these cable ties are indoor-rated.
(You can tell because they're white.) That non-
UV stabilized Nylon will rot quickly in the sun.

Then there will be zero cable ties!

At least you'll have a nice perch for the birds. Dave

[eatmoresoap]

I never noticed any split on the ones I use. It may be there but I probably am not seeing it. I run the cable through the hole and crimp. Sorry if I missed something there. The split seal, however, goes against how I weatherproof things but if I were to split it the vapor wrap covering the entry point would take care of water infiltration.

Flooded cable is gel as well as powder. I prefer the gel but one can also use the powder. The reason one would use outdoor flooded cable is the reason why they make outdoor flooded cable. It is UV protected, if you use the shielded then you have no issues with stray RF or electrical noise in the cable run. The shield is for RF, not water. The covering of the indoor cable will actually absorb water and I've seen some really cheap indoor cable bacially rot from the inside out. As far as the gel migrating, if it does, and I don't see much of that ever except from the wires at the end of the cable after you strip it and it's a good thing for the connector. In fact, there are gel filled connectors as well.

The thread was water infiltration into the Bullets. If you vapor wrap the top, get the silicone plug fully seated in the cap, vapor wrap it and use an outdoor flooded cable, where is the water to come from??? Is this not the proper procedure for installng any outdoor mounted piece of RF equipment or have I been wrong all this time?

How long have I been doing this? I've been installing cables and equipment in outdoor environments since 1976. I've seen my share of bad installs as well as very good ones. But the basics are just that, basic. We also install gas discharge lightning arestors at the point where the antenna enters (yes, I know UBNT has built in protection, I think about that everytime I see pictures of one blown up) and a cat5 lightning arrestor where the cable enters the structure plus the entire unit is grounded. We do the job one time and have had zero failures due to water or surge to our equipment other than the antennas.

How is this even debatable? Do you honestly think you can take this unit out of the box, install it as is with just a drip loop in the indoor patch cable and expect it to last more than a couple of years in full sun, rain and snow AND have consistent and decent signal quality? These are not some wild and crazy install methods, you know. These are industry standards.

[WHT]

But I still don't understand why gel migration is a bad thing. It's a dialectric silicone grease, so I'd guess a little on the connectors would help keep water and corrosion out. No? There's no silicone at all, its a paraffinic hydrocarbon based gel. Its just as problematic as silicone as it holds hygroscopic dust. Its not unusual for me to spray down the terminal block inside an outside pedestal (those green telephone company splice boxes or cans - usually called "peds") because of all the accumulated dust starts leaking current on the pairs and you'll get noise on the line.

The white plastic "button" appears to be threaded, but in fact isn't threaded; rather has groves for retention. It may be splash and rain proof when the Bullet is mounted vertically, but certainly not drip proof in any other position. That clearly meets the definition of an IP4 rated housing.

Do you honestly think you can take this unit out of the box, install it as is with just a drip loop in the indoor patch cable and expect it to last more than a couple of years...Yup...as long as water isn't forced up into the white plastic gland, there won't be any problems.

I've had many of Bullets out in the field for about a year now and have no signs of water damage. if you're finding water inside the bottom cup, you may have pinched the white gasket ring.

[Dave-D]

I could have guessed it isn't silicone. Silicone
is expensive. The outdoor cable I use doesn't
have grease or powder--it's totally dry. But
the maker says it's what all their tower guys
use. (Maybe they use it to hold their pants up.)

Double jacket with shield. Seems to work well.

I get what you say about carbon tracking across
terminals. But I thought that would only affect
high-impedance circuits (not 600/900-ohm tele).

And even if dust collects on the surface of a coat of
grease, how could it shunt connections underneath?

[WHT]

Outdoor cable merely implies the sheath is U.V. resistant. It doesn't imply, unless stated, that it has a gel or powder filler. While its not green like Oobleck, it still sets up a water barrier.

Any conductive dust current leakage will affect just about anything to varying degrees. Even 500 KHz T channels.

If the gel evenly coated everything, then it would keep the dust and grim off everything, but it doesn't so it doesn't. And when it gets runny in the summer, you'll get a conductive gel/dust mix. I've hot spliced way too many live T-1 ckts to know.

[eatmoresoap]

Flooded cable is not subjet to hydioscopic dust. If you had issue with hydroscopic dust then you have bigger issues by trying to find out how it was getting into a sealed system.

Peds sitting a water in a ditch along side the road with one screw holding on the cover, if it even has one left on it, home to mice, insects and anything else that can fit inside are subject to hydroscopic dust and it's obvious why. A bit of a stretch from a pedestal to a properly installed cable in a sealed system.

I can not understand the defense of using an indoor, PVC patch cable on an installation over the industry standard of an outdoor, UV rated, shielded and flooded cable WITH a drain wire. That's the standard, that's what we use and I don't find myself issues that trace back to cables, connectors, surge and the like.

You do not use indoor patch in a plenum. You do not use indoor patch cable in a riser. You do not use indoor patch cable outside. Each of these situations have their own type of cable for a reason. What indoor patch cable is used for is indoor patch cable. In fact, UBNT says to NOT use indoor cable on their units because of the wicking of the water by the PVC jacket.

This isn't installing an antenna at gradmas so you can use the laptop when you visit. This is to be a professional installation for a customer who is paying you and relying on you to provide quaility service in both the installation and the broadband. If you want to shortcut things, fine. You'll be fine most of the time with that, i admit that much. We strive to be fine ALL the time so we stick with the accepted industry standards.

[eatmoresoap]

And [quote]there is absolutely no reason to use "flooded" or gel-filled cable for an outdoor installation.

Then why do they make flooded cable? Flooded cable is a MUST USE for extended ground or water contact unless the cable is installed in a conduit.

You don't have those situations? How many installs have you done where you have to lay the cable across a flat roof? A rubber membrane roof pools water for days with your cable laying in it

If anyone doubts the use of a gel or powder filled cable, just do a Google search on flooded cable and the debate is over.

[raytaylor]

And [quote]there is absolutely no reason to use "flooded" or gel-filled cable for an outdoor installation.

Then why do they make flooded cable? Flooded cable is a MUST USE for extended ground or water contact unless the cable is installed in a conduit.

You don't have those situations? How many installs have you done where you have to lay the cable across a flat roof? A rubber membrane roof pools water for days with your cable laying in it

If anyone doubts the use of a gel or powder filled cable, just do a Google search on flooded cable and the debate is over.

I have been using gel filled cable because i always thought that if water were to get inside, it stops it from flowing down the length of the cable.

[kijoma]

hi,

there is another possibility.. if the cat5 run from the bullet goes upward from the bullet and the cat5 itself has a hole in it, then the cable will fill up , resulting in the bullet filling up.. the rubber seal will happily keep the water in there too as demonstrated.

do NOT use indoor rated PVC cable on exterior installations!, use the exterior rated stuff if you want it to last.. and make sure you haven't punctured the outer with a staple or nail etc..

cheers

[WHT]

That's correct, the gel or powder prevents water migration. Its all right if a small section gets flooded with water; but when you have a long stretch get flooded, it degrades the cable's performance.

Here's my take on the water retention of that white plug - its not going to prevent water from leaking *into* the cap, but it will "happily" (as Bill phrased it) prevent water from leaking out.

As for staples... I cannot believe that all of the WISPs in my area are using T50 staples directly into roof shingles.

Wish list...a battery powered T25 staple gun.

[andrewe02000]

Has anyone noticed the plastic thats glued down where the LEDs are? We've noticed that it peels up just a little and has been letting water in through there. I think if Ubiquiti put some clear material in where the LED holes were it would help a lot. Even if was hot glue or just something to stop the water from comming in there.

[IslandTime]

I've had a couple where I noticed the label coming loose at the LED's after the unit had warmed up during setup. It sealed up when I pressed it back down and did not come up again but I've worried about it happening in the field. I haven't gotten any units back with water intrusion.

[WHT]

Flooded cable is not subjet to hydioscopic dust. I never said it was, I said the icky pic gel that leaks out gets all over your gear.

I can not understand the defense of using an indoor, PVC patch cable on an installation over the industry standard of an outdoor, UV rated, shielded and flooded cable WITH a drain wire. No one is defending using indoor cable for an outdoor application.

Then why do they make flooded cable? Flooded cable is a MUST USE for extended ground or water contact unless the cable is installed in a conduit.

You don't have those situations? How many installs have you done where you have to lay the cable across a flat roof? A rubber membrane roof pools water for days with your cable laying in it

Conduit will eventually fill up with water. I don't care how diligently it was installed, I have never ever found buried PVC that doesn't eventually have water in it.

All PVC cable is water proof, but not water vapor proof. Indoor cable when left outside eventually suffers U.V. induced breakdown and moisture will eventually get inside; and it will also leak water after years of sitting in a water filled conduit, but hardly after a few days of laying in pool of outdoor water that dries up (if you still aren't comfortable, then secure the cable where it won't get wet or go ahead and use gel-filled). The U.V. resistant outdoor cable is more immune to U.V. degradation.

[WHT]

test test test

Hrm, PM seems to be disabled for all profiles now, had to enable it in my profile, doesn't appear to be enabled on a lot of others either. Hover over someones username and you won't get the option to pm them.

[mdzidic]

I have problems with one of my Bullet5 and water...
When I opened it, B5 was fulled with water!

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9359/p1050700.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/p1050700.jpg/)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3684/p1050702.jpg (http://img222.imageshack.us/i/p1050702.jpg/)
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9288/p1050706.jpg (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/p1050706.jpg/)

[Dave-D]

mdzidic, your photos show bad stuff, but
there's no way to discover how the water
got inside. You don't show your installation
or cabling techniques.

You may be able to rescue your Bullet.

With the shield covers off (as they are now),
soak it very briefly in a tub of warm water
and dish detergent. If you have a soft
bristle toothbrush, scrub the circuit board
very gently to remove any surface scum.

Spray rinse with hot water, shake well and
blow dry with compressed air or 'canned' air.

Allow to dry overnight. Test gingerly. Dave

[WHT]

I would also rinse it off with mineral sprites, light fluid, etc. to displace the water. Don't use rubbing alcohol from the store, its has additives. Commercial grade cleaning alcohol would work, the kind used for cleaning recording tape heads.

Goofy suggestion, but I had a cellphone that I dropped in my dogs' water bowl. I opened it up and tied a rope to it, and swung it in a circle over my head to force the water out.

[Dave-D]

I assume you mean the cellphone and not the dog.

I mean, heck, what might come out of the dog?

BTW: I suggest not using any solvents. Some of
them may attack various components; it's impossible
to be sure. Any residual water will easily dry if left
overnight (unless it's Galvaston). If not, gentle use
of a hair dryer will take care of the problem.

[wisptec2]

I have a bullet2 that got water all in it and the water just laid. You can tell by how it’s burnt inside. The water came thru the Power / LAN / Signal label and fried it all. It was installed horizontally. FYI make sure the LEDs are pointing down!!!

[WHT]

I assume you mean the cellphone and not the dog.

I mean, heck, what might come out of the dog?

ROFL......Sorry, I meant the phone, not the dog. That's too funny.


Isopropyl alcohol is a safe solvent as its used extensively in the printed circuit board industry. But you can't use "drug store 90%" grade as it has denaturents and emoluments, 99.4% grade works. 99% ethanol works even better, but Everclear is kinda expensive.

Mineral spirits and lighter fluid is pretty benign. Whatever solvent you use, spray it off with some "canned air".

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

I have a bullet2 that got water all in it and the water just laid. You can tell by how it’s burnt inside. The water came thru the Power / LAN / Signal label and fried it all. It was installed horizontally. FYI make sure the LEDs are pointing down!!!


Hello,

Please RMA this unit at www.ubnt.com/support (http://www.ubnt.com/support)

Thanks

Mike

[Dave-D]

What a nice guy! I wouldn't take back water-soaked stuff.

Maybe some general advice? Install Bullets only vertically,
with the N connector pointed upward. A horizontal position
assures that wind-blown rain can pelt the CAT5 entry port.
Yep--the silicone plug protects, but not perfectly. Dave

[mdzidic]

@Dave.D: Thanks for suggestions I'll try that... And I agree Bullet is only good when you can install it vertically. Mine was installed horizontally on the panel antenna...

[billbahamas]

[QUOTE=stojke;26255]Hi, i bought 10 pcs of bullet 2 and bullet 5. I read on forum that u tested it in water for few seconds and everything went ok. I have 2 question:
1. Is connector also waterproof or only device?
2. I have a waveguide 2.4ghz which has N female connector 90 degres angle, so if i connect bullet he will be in horizontal position. Is this gona be a problem or i must use patch cable.


Try this N right angle adapter. It will get it vertical. I assume it would not cause too much loss. Someone jump in if there is a better way. Good luck.
http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=5447

Thanks... Bill on boat

[WHT]

Right angle N adapter will work, but you'll still have to waterproof tape all the coax fittings.