Power Supply for Bullets

[gmidia]

i am of view that the bullets be supplied with POE-15 as opposed to supplying it without a POE. It is like selling a car without wheels. can anybody give me alternative to this even if it means an additional means an additional $15.

[WHT]

I'm in the view it should NOT be sold with a power supply. Why pay more for a Bullet with an included power supply when many of us would most likely end up throwing it away and using a better solution more adept at our needs.

[gmidia]

Now give us the good solution that you have so that we can adopt too. and what is the cost of that solution that you have. Guess this is where to share the good ideas like yours that you are using

[WHT]

Buy OEM 18 volt DC power supplies

Buy open frame 100 watt power supplies with modified patch panel distribution frame.

[gmidia]

that is for the power supplies what of the POE adapters

[WHT]

modified patch panel distribution frame

[gmidia]

now you are talking from a techs side of things what of the end users who walk into a shop and purchase a unit for use with a specified wisp or the other. It should be a plug and play thing. What is your cost for the power supply and then having to start modifying patch panel distribution frame.

[WHT]

I would say if the shop is selling the Bullet, then they ought to be offering the power supplies.

[gmidia]

and the modified patch panel distribution frame too?

[gmidia]

and i quote "I would say if the shop is selling the Bullet, then they ought to be offering the power supplies" which means if ubiquiti are selling the bullets they ought to sell the Power supplies too and the POE's inshort they should supply these along side the bullets. But have the OEM 18V Adapters etc

[WHT]

Very unlikely, that would be for you to build. A cheap and easy one would be with some 8-pin modular jacks in a 6 hole wall face plate.

[gmidia]

I guess as much as ubiquiti want to have some low cost affordable units out there for WISP. i would suggest they do a survey on having or not having the POE and Power supplies. I dont think we have many techs out there who are good enough to go building their own Modified patch panel distribution frame . The reason for the bullets was to have users put in the antennas of the Gain that they need as opposed to being limited by the Inbuilt antenna like the NS2 or NS5 and then having to buy an external antenna if one requires a higher gain on the nanos or PS. But was not about the POE or the Power supplies

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello,

The majority of people discard these 12V to go with higher voltages for longer cable runs, so it was prudent to not include on these devices.

Thank you,

Mike

[garymansperger]

Well then, why not supply a 18V power supplty and POE injector?

Just call me trouble :twisted:

[gmidia]

Thank for having the reason behind the elimination of these 12 Volts. Then it would work well if the higher voltage of 18V is supplied along side even if it means having it as a separate part as WHT says earlier in the post, the Shop would also supply the Power supplies and POE's. So we are expected to build the Poe's like WHT and others do. Considering other regions like where i am that is developing the separate power supplies are not readily available as they are not moving items since most other POE Items come with the Power supplies and POE's

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Because then people would be upset that our devices are not low cost anymore.

We cannot have cake and eat it too.

Mike

[gmidia]

There is a definate reason why the users discard the 12V adapters, does it mean that the reason you have given does not apply to the nanostations and powerstations which are supplied with the POE's and power supplies. They also need to be run over longer distances. If the 18 V will power both the short and longer lengths lets have all units come with 18V. Then issue is sorted out. Do they discard the POE injectors :?: if they dont why then dont they come with the bullets

[WHT]

UBNT isn't Burger King...You can't always have it your way :lol:

[gmidia]

more the reason why i said if most use it that way (18V) why not go thier way with 18V than my way :lol:

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Once again, if we to were incorporate 18V power supplies in our products it would significantly drive up the price of our units.

Thanks,

Mike

[gmidia]

I definately agree with you Mike the prices of the units will go up but the end result means the user still has to cough up that extra cost of purchasing the adapter. if you incraese the price by say 10 usd and the 18V also costs 10 usd why not package it . This issue better be left to the marketing and sales persons than the technicals

[UBNT-Robert]

Guys --

We made the decision to ship bullet without power supplies for several reasons


1.) Unlike Nano which is primarily used as CPE, we thought bullet would be used mixture of CPE and infrastructure applications that might require longer cable runs and where many users would want to their own supplies they are comfortable with in infrastructure use

2.) Packaging looks a lot cooler and bulk shipments are a lot cleaner

3.) Cost (at least advertised cost just for the Bullet) is lower


Based on the feedback, maybe we made a mistake. In future, we'll learn from you guys.


I don't know if it's a consolation, but we do have our POE-15 (15V, 12W) supply available that we designed in-house and has earth grounding /ESD protection. It is cost-effective; should be <$10 in distribution. It also has the power LED that has been commonly requested.

http://www.ubnt.com/products/poe15.php
http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/poe15_ds.pdf


In the future, would it be better to include this supply into bullets even if it meant end-user price would increase by $7-10?

Robert

[gmidia]

Definately Yes, but have your marketing make the final decision on this it is all about supply and demand. If the demand for it without the POE and adapter is positive then continue without. One thing i know is that with an increase size in packaging would maybe result in higher freight charges. All in all better left for the marketing an sales department

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello Gmidia,

Thank you for the constructive input, it is highly valued.

We strive to do everything we can to give the end user's the final product they want, and input like this helps tremendously.

Thanks,

Mike

[rodneal]

Hey Mike,
Where can we purchase this poe - power supply??
Rod

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hey Rod,

Chec with Streakwave, MicroCom or HD Comm.

I think they should have some.

Thanks,

Mike

[DrNutbush]

Well, WOW! What a kickbutt PoE adapter! Once again Ubiquiti are the Pioneers of quality, innovative solutions for us. Thanks again UBNT

[davey]

Hi,

Nice product. I assume 0.8A is sufficient for Nano, PS, Bullet. I love the colour-changing LED for overload. Also, the fact that it is well grounded too.

How about a version that ships with UK/IE plug? You know, the sturdy one with the pins half-coated in plastic that stays in the wall better than the US or EU ones????!!!!

A cost premium of a couple of dollars would be tolerated and I'm sure the cables can be bought in China in bulk for peanuts.

If not, I suppose it's not a deal-breaker as we love your stuff anyway.

Davey

[davey]

Also, on the PSU or not issue, I just ordered 13 Bullets from Greece to Ireland and got 1-2 day service for €33!

A lot to be said for the small package....

[gmidia]

Thank you Ubnt. Staying ahead of the pack

[Headbang]

If the Bullets were to ship with a 12V Supply and POE, I would end up tossing it right away anyway just like I do with Nanostations and Powerstaions. I prefer to use 18V POE's with surge suppression, it results in a lot less dead lan ports (1 dead PS2 in the last yr out of hundreds). As well, it allows me to make those 150-200FT runs to the other side of a tree bluff.

As far as my plans to use the Bullet as infrastructure, we build our own POE junctions that supply any voltage we require (48V, 24V, 18V). This affords us the ability to have only 1 AC connection inside and all the splitting to be done outside on the tower where we have easy access even if the land owner is not home during a disaster.

If all goes well in testing, the bullet is going to create a very low cost last-mile/subdivision repeater. This will be in areas over an hrs drive away from the shop, relying on the low cost POE's that would normaly be supplied would be crazy.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Thanks for the info!

Mike

[MrUmunhum]

Mike,

I have a few question/comments about power supplies.
Where can I find the wiring layout for the POE? Which lines to wire up? A URL?
Do you have plans to provide PS for battery operations? Something with a voltage doubler would be nice. Low power in.
What is the max length for a 12VDC run?For 15VDC run, etc.FYI, I'm the guy that is running a solar powered network.

Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello,

The units use standard midspan PoE wiring witch can be found with a google search.

We have no plans for a PS for battery operations.

The length of the run varies greatly as it is based on the quality of cable used.

Thanks,

Mike

[garyd]

On the subject of bundling power supplies with bullets, why not make it optional? It may mean havine one more SKU but then a customer may purchase with or without depending on their need. I suppose the distributor could do the same thing, however.

In my case, I bought my two as a preorder from a reseller in Seattle back in November and at the time, the power supply had not been announced by Ubiquiti. Were I to place the order again, I would add on power supplies but the cost to ship them now is not worth it unless I order a few other parts from them at the same time. If there's a local distributor in Portland, OR, however, it would be easier to just drop in and pick them up, saving myself the S&H plus get a chance to chat about my projects. This is why I like VARs.

-Gary

[shaad07]

Hi everybody,

I have received my Bullet 2 today, and I was just asking if I can power it with my NS2 POE for the time being until I buy POE-15. Will it work properly?
Sorry for this silly question guys!

Thanks

[WHT]

You sure can...I've been doing that since early fall.

[jdmarti1]

Power supplies are my biggest complaint about UBNT stuff. Everything should come with the max voltage psu that the units will take. If that means we pay a few more bucks - who cares, we spend it anyway, not to mention we place one order instead of two. I absolutely love the UBNT equipment - have since the original SR2 cards came out, this is the one place I would like to see an improvement. The amazing thing is - they actually listen to their users - that is refreshing.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hey Guys,

We are working on this starting with the new PoE.

Thanks,

Mike

[WHT]

This is interesting...

http://inscapedata.com/lps.htm

Five port adjustable via etherent power supply.

Snipped from their web page:
Inscape Data's LinkPowerTM LPS1000 Adjustable Voltage PoE Switch is an unique and powerful outdoor five-port Ethernet Switch with an adjustable voltage feature. Based on our patent-pending technology, the LPS1000 Adjustable Voltage PoE Switch offers four voltage levels, which enables a wide range of outdoor network and security applications and significantly reduces the complexity of outdoor network installation, integration and ongoing network maintenance. The LPS1000 PoE Switch offers local and remote power level configurations. Locally, each LPS1000 port is designed with a simple, easy-to-use push button for power level configuration. Remote configuration over the internet can be achieved using a common internet web browser. The adjustable voltage and other dynamic features, including remote reset and individual port troubleshooting capabilities, make the LinkPower LPS1000 the industry's most powerful outdoor PoE Switch.

[kijoma]

hi,

a lot of WiSPS have a common power supply for node sites/relays, we do.. not having the psu is no issue to us as an el cheapo psu is no use when we can simply connect the PoE block to the power that feeds everything else (usually 20-22V)

Especially as the supplied adaptors are either EU or US plug :(

[Myself]

The units use standard midspan PoE wiring witch can be found with a google search.
...
Mike

Except that most standard midspan injectors provide 48 volts, which will fry your Bullet. (Or your friend's bullet. In the case that was on my bench this afternoon, the TVSS diode did its job and protected the unit, but then failed short due to prolonged overheating. Desoldering the diode returned the unit to functionality but left it without protection. Another part for my next Mouser order... Don't let software guys play with radios!)

And most homebrew-PoE setups use the opposite polarity. Both the -48v camp and the +12v camp agree, that pins 4-5 should be the power "return" (at ground potential), to minimize damage if someone accidentally mingles phone wiring in here somehow. But the differing polarities with respect to ground means that means that "supply" pins 7-8 are negative on the bullet, and positive on most of the DIY stuff.

I know a bridge rectifier or a Polyfuse would up the cost of the unit, but either one or both would be a good idea given the above facts.

Of course, both the voltage and polarity issues largely go away if the unit is bundled with a PSU/injector, but I'm NOT advocating that! As an option, yes, but PLEASE preserve the ability to order bare Bullets for us hardware guys who prefer to roll our own.

(Nirvana would be: 60v input range, bridge rectifier for polarity agnosticism, move the serial header to the middle of the board so it's not right against the case, and include a temperature sensor of some sort. And maybe a beefier LC filter on the power input pins to keep the 370kHz out of the UTP.)

[kijoma]

hi,

I havent bumped into a wireless vendor who doesnt have blue+ / brown- with a typical max 24V input for passive non standard PoE.

Tranzeo, MT, UBNT all do it this way..

48V is for standard PoE and if people cant read the specs before plugging it into a PoE unit they already have then they shouldn't be using it :)

[absoluto]

Hello,

The majority of people discard these 12V to go with higher voltages for longer cable runs, so it was prudent to not include on these devices.

Thank you,

Mike

great!! nice

[kijoma]

Hello,

The majority of people discard these 12V to go with higher voltages for longer cable runs, so it was prudent to not include on these devices.

Thank you,

Mike

great!! nice

yep it is, A euro or american mains adaptor is no use to us in the UK :)

adding a mains adaptor would increase the packaging size considerably too, this all adds to shipping cost etc..

[marekm]

(Nirvana would be: 60v input range, bridge rectifier for polarity agnosticism, move the serial header to the middle of the board so it's not right against the case, and include a temperature sensor of some sort. And maybe a beefier LC filter on the power input pins to keep the 370kHz out of the UTP.)

Add a supply voltage sensor (to diagnose stability issues caused by voltage drop on too long or poor quality cables) - there are chips that include both temperature sensor and ADC.

BTW, is 24V the absolute maximum? It would be nice to be able to use a power supply with 24V sealed lead acid battery backup (up to 28V fully charged, minus some load-dependent drop on the cable - could be a bit over 24V worst case) - is that reasonably safe, or would it be better to use a series voltage regulator to drop a few volts?

[rconaway]

For what's it worth, I haven't had a single power supply failure yet on any of our NS radios from day one. My runs are typically 100' or less but so far, so good. However, it would be better for the bullet to have it shipped with the power supply.

http://picasaweb.google.com/roryconaway/TucsonEstates#5294335653265431730

[Frotihngdog.ca]

rconaway

Just looked at your pics, very impressive, but I was wondering are all those NS's the same freq or are you mixing?

[kijoma]

hi,

interesting setup, that's a lot of mains adaptors and aerials, whats the coverage area? , don't the nano's block each other?

would be interested to see how much signal the vertically adjacent nano's send into each other

[rconaway]

There are 4 nanos on each of 3 vertical poles (2 on the backside, no backup). 2 are NS5's, 2 are NS2's. There is only NS5 and one NS2 turned on. The others are turned off and are there for backup only in case of radio or power supply failure. We haven't had any yet in 3 months.

As for your questions on vertical interference, it's not an issue on this tower for the reasons above. However, we will be doing some testing on that and more later in the week.

Our coverage areas is less then 2 miles maximum and we have other AP's scattered around. Based on our testing, we could go about 3 miles maximum to a client with an NS5 without to much problem.

[westbywest]

For what's it worth, I haven't had a single power supply failure yet on any of our NS radios from day one. My runs are typically 100' or less but so far, so good. However, it would be better for the bullet to have it shipped with the power supply.

http://picasaweb.google.com/roryconaway/TucsonEstates#5294335653265431730

The section where you have a dedicated POE injector for each NS looks like a definite area where a cat-5 punch-down block with a large 18VDC OEM transformer could save lots of effort and funds.

The punchdown blocks can be readily acquired 2nd-hand very cheaply (i.e. don't need cat5e or cat6), and you get very nice connector density.
cf.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CAT-5-CAT-5-Punchdown-Block-qty-2-Excellent-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ330307199187QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Cables_Connectors?hash=item4ce7d7e0d3&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

The one thing that is missing from this solution is the surge protection and clamping provided by the POE-15. Has any anyone successfully implemented this on their own?

[wireless_guy]

For what's it worth, I haven't had a single power supply failure yet on any of our NS radios from day one. My runs are typically 100' or less but so far, so good. However, it would be better for the bullet to have it shipped with the power supply.

http://picasaweb.google.com/roryconaway/TucsonEstates#5294335653265431730

The section where you have a dedicated POE injector for each NS looks like a definite area where a cat-5 punch-down block with a large 18VDC OEM transformer could save lots of effort and funds.

The punchdown blocks can be readily acquired 2nd-hand very cheaply (i.e. don't need cat5e or cat6), and you get very nice connector density.
cf.
http://cgi.ebay.com/CAT-5-CAT-5-Punchdown-Block-qty-2-Excellent-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ330307199187QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Cables_Connectors?hash=item4ce7d7e0d3&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

The one thing that is missing from this solution is the surge protection and clamping provided by the POE-15. Has any anyone successfully implemented this on their own?

how about use a 2nd hand or throw away notebook power supply??
Here is mine 18V 3.0Amphttp://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww128/tutik2/ded36065.jpg
..would this have the Clamping and safety feature POE 15 offers? Remember Bullets have no power supply when shipped. UBNT please... just the passive PoE would be fine for us BULET lovers.

Thanks

Wireless_guy

[Prariedog]

This is an interesting conversation.... I've had two B2HP's fail on me and I'm being told that I need to use a grounded POE (like the ones being offered seperately) ans shielded cable. I understand that most people don't use the POE's supplied with the units, I acctually only use them at client sites. However, if the Bullet requires a special "grounded" POE, wouldn't it make sense to supply them (for additional cost)? Rather than have people burn them out trying to figure out what kind of power/grounding configuration to use.
Just a thought.....

[kijoma]

hi,

grounding your antenna mount is a wise idea, use CAT5 or 6 Screened Twisted Pair instead of the standard stuff, then attach a ground wire to the mast (if metal) at the radio end.

this will reduce the effect of lightning on the internal pairs and prevent blowing up the ethernet interface.

Either that or put the cat 5 inside the metal pole if its mounted on one..

just keep long runs of cat5 away from becoming pick up antennas for lightning storms / static etc.....

[sxpert]

talking about POE, we have a loco5 working perfectly at the end of a 120m cat6 run with the original 12v POE...
so, they're not as bad as you'd think !