WISP Customer Problems

[garymansperger]

In another post I asked the question "what is the cause of customer problem calls" (or something like that)

For my business the number 1 problem is the customer furnished router requires rebooting.

I am not sure if it is poor routers or something going on on my side that is the real problem.

However, Last week I went to Las Vegas to the CES (Consumer Electronic Show). I know that there was a lot of wireless companies there and an opertunity to get to several in one day.
I know that "What .... in Vegas stays in Vegas" but I am breaking this rule.

After talking with several manufactures of consumer routuers the number on suggestion is "Keep the firmware in the router up to date!". Radical :twisted: My guess is that not one of my customers has ever updated the firmware.

Although I do not have time to go from house to house updating routhers, I am getting the word out and suggesting that this is done. We keep the firmware up to date in every thing else. Linksys people tell me that every time you log into the newer modles that it automatically does a check of firmware version and alearts use of the availability of newer versions. Of course, how often does one log into the rourter? (not often to never)

I am going to try to make up a list of all the routers being used and check the firmware version ever so often. I think the time of doing this once a quarter may save more time in avoided calls.
Wish me luck (which outside of the CES show I did not have)
Gary

[WHT]

Email is a horrible evil to have to deal with, but it's gotta be done. Most people have hotmail and gmail etc, but most still want and ISP address, and most haven't a damn clue how POP/SMTP operates or worse how to configure it.

With the proliferation of free email services, we don't even bother with our own, except for specific case by case needs.

We set up a lot of domains, if for nothing else its a for a professional looking email presence. I tell a customer that when they give out an email address like, "joe_president_of_big_company@yahoo.com", it says they can't afford the $7 a month for a REAL email address, such as "joe@somebigcompany.com".

[garymansperger]

moving way off topic but you sparked a sore spot.
I also run a mail server and also have a couple dozen domain names. I use code crafter ability mail server software and like it very much.
But, I constantly run into specific mail servers that do a reverse DNS and bounce mail as the actual server has a different name than the mail account (but with 20+ different domains running on the same server this is to be expected).
OK, back to WiFi
G :twisted:

[garymansperger]

OK, back on topic.

kewlkeed:
You say EMAIL is your porblem. can you elaborate?
My email problems seem to be
1. SMTP problems for traveling customers
2. Bounced email from servers thinking mail from my server is spam

G

[SatireWolf]

Do you all realize that Google provides free domain email hosting?

We use branded google portals for all our email @superawesomewirelesscompany.wifi

The above is a fictitious domain, but you get the point.

You can setup mail.superawesomewirelesscompany.wifi to goto your mail portal (or webmail.superawesomewirelesscompany.wifi). Then let google sort them out. I don't even bother providing pop or imap assistance. If customers want custom software assistance there's a monthly fee for that separately. I manage the data side and keep it simple. If I can ping your CPE device, that's the end of my troubles.

Now as for routers, I always deploy pfSense equipped embedded equipment at the customer premises. They have built in watchdog timers and reboot themselves if something goes AWOL. I don't support anything else. It's open source, free and rock solid FreeBSD embedded on flash cards. I run them all on Soekris hardware. I used to use PC Engines Wrap hardware (now Alix, new platform, faster processor) before the dollar to euro ratio killed me, but it's still pretty cheap for what you get.

If Ubiquiti can get a killer embedded router design with the essential hardening features pfSense has, along with a nice looking slim aluminum OEM case for customer premise install I'll use that instead. I'm all about 1 platform setups, but for my purposes pfSense (it's built on the old m0n0wall platform, but they built it to scale to PC servers if you need the umph) just rocks. And just FYI, the PF firewall in FreeBSD has better traffic shaping, and better overall PPS performance than linux on equivalent hardware.

http://www.pfsense.com/

My head end routers have 380 days of up time now without a reboot or update necessary. Although I'm getting ready to update them to FreeBSD 7.0 and the latest pfSense firmware (just a 1 file firmware update, easy as pie).

If the customer wants to inflict a cheap Circuit City grade router on themselves, that's they're own problem. I always direct them back to the install supplied pfSense hardware we installed and configured for the customer.

1) Email
2) Email
3) Email
4) Internal Routers
5) Cleaning lady/cat/kids/spouse unplugged the PoE for whatever reason (Or plugged the wires in backwards)

Email is a horrible evil to have to deal with, but it's gotta be done. Most people have hotmail and gmail etc, but most still want and ISP address, and most haven't a damn clue how POP/SMTP operates or worse how to configure it.

[rodneal]

We just partnered with google email system - what a relief to be able to hand off the scalability to someone else with the budget that google has!!!
All our domains are handled via our register and host and then the dns is forwarded to our private labelled email hosting with google.
Plus our email size limit just went of the charts by comparison.
Loving it!!!
Rod

[garymansperger]

Rodneal--

If you do not mind, are you using the standard or premium google serverce?

Gary

[rodneal]

Hey Gary---

I use the standard - google went to a different structure last Nov(?) that farmed out their premium service to partner providers and they want $0.40 per email account.
Which to say is rediculas due to we provide this as a value-added service - which they know.
Having said that - it's a great system to ally with.
Rod

[rodneal]

I forgot this - this service does not allow API scripting so it can not be integrated into a management database like Powercode without the Premium.
If you know otherwise - please inform me - please!!!!


Rod

[zrob_12]

Rod - do you pay per account or just a flat monthly fee to google? What are the costs?

[rodneal]

Hey zrob_12,
No - it's free.
No costs for standard.
Rod

[garymansperger]

I looked into it a bit, but time ran out.
It looks like you give them admin rights to the domain. Do they do anything with the settings other than email??
It actually looks like you may give them the right to transfer the registrar from yours to them.

Having said this, I trust Google, but just want to know what I am getting into.

[rodneal]

Hey Gary,

Keep your hosting where it's at.

Here's how the process works from your hosting site.

http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?answer=33352&ctx=sibling

MX and CName forwarded

Very simple!!!

Rod

[DY6AMJ]

Hey zrob_12,
No - it's free.
No costs for standard.
Rod
its for free using google apps for 50 emails only you have to pay if youl want a premium

[rockhead]

#1 problem, easy, friggin mac's with buggy wireless and buggy updates making them unable to send email. 10% of the market 50% of my calls .


My customers should never be asked to update firmware on a router, by the time they get the dust collection off, remove the bit and set the cutting depth to zero ...

[Bean_Planter]

LOL.

I wonder...how many WISPS provide customer premise routers as part of the installation (and under what terms, if so)?

[Sirhc]

LOL.

I wonder...how many WISPS provide customer premise routers as part of the installation (and under what terms, if so)?

We try to convince them to purchase an AirRouter but will use theirs if they have one and if it accepts DD-WRT. We install DD-WRT on it and have it reboot every day at 3AM which prevent most all problems.

All the Residential customer AirRouters or DD-WRT routers are in AP only mode with no NAT and the Nano on the roof is in NAT router mode with port mappings to their AP. We also have standard firewall settings in the Nano that only allow us to access it or the customers AP inside.

There are very few things that people from outside our network can access, not including commercial accounts who have their own routers.

I love using the AirRouters because I can put them in AirControl and do mass updates when needed.

[wifi_guy]

We do not supply the end user with their own router. We run the CPE in router mode, they can plug right into the PoE or if they want they can purchase their own router. Most we find have their own router already anyway.

[MichiganWISP]

All the Residential customer AirRouters or DD-WRT routers are in AP only mode with no NAT and the Nano on the roof is in NAT router mode with port mappings to their AP.

I do the same but use a cheap TPLink router as the AP, have very few problems with this setup. Sticker on the bottom with SSID and WPA key. Very few support calls with this topology.

[Sirhc]

Sticker on the bottom with SSID and WPA key. Very few support calls with this topology.

ditto :icon_mrgreen:

[MeWireless]

ditto :icon_mrgreen:

I put ours tight on top and I still get calls asking what it was :(

[MichiganWISP]

I put ours tight on top and I still get calls asking what it was :(

Well I just got one this morning, so there's always a user stupider than you anticipate! But seriously I've only had maybe 3-4 calls ever asking what is the WPA key.

[WHT]

there's always a user stupider than you anticipate!

To paraphrase Carl Sagin's, "The universe is not only more wondrous than we imagine, it is more wondrous than we can imagine!"

"Users are not only more stupid than we can imagine, they are more stupid than we can imagine."




And my favorite Albert Einstein paraphrasation, "Any man who can drive safely while kissing a handsome cowboy is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves." But that's just me....

[nickalot]

Condescending know it all Subscriber: "I need a new modem".

Tech Support: "We don't show any issues, how do you know that you need a new modem?"

Condescending know it all Subscriber: "The screen is black and says 'No Signal'."

Tech Support: "Try turning on the computer in addition to the monitor."

[MichiganWISP]

Just had a call yesterday from a user who had a know-it-all visitor reset their router to defaults "to make it go faster, you know clear out the cookies and junk". Despite the sticker on the bottom warning "Do Not Press Reset Button". I have the network configured so that only my routers will work, if they default it, no internet. Then of course they waited 2 days to see if it would magically start working before calling us. Second time that has happened so far. I guess I am going to have to start glueing the reset buttons or something.

[treichhart]

Next time charge them for re-programming of 100 dollars that will teach them not to press that freaking reset button.

[SpecialK]

Just had a call yesterday from a user who had a know-it-all visitor reset their router to defaults "to make it go faster, you know clear out the cookies and junk". Despite the sticker on the bottom warning "Do Not Press Reset Button". I have the network configured so that only my routers will work, if they default it, no internet. Then of course they waited 2 days to see if it would magically start working before calling us. Second time that has happened so far. I guess I am going to have to start glueing the reset buttons or something.


Why not just disable the reset button in the GUI?
And as long as their POE is the standard one without a reset button you should be good.

[treichhart]

Well can you still disable the reset button on gui with the POE with reset button is there?

[SpecialK]

Well can you still disable the reset button on gui with the POE with reset button is there?

I have not tested this but for me it's not a problem since I use mostly Nanobridges and nano stations which ship with the standard 24v .5 amp POE without a reset button.
Then just tftp if you need to reset a unit.

[SPITwSPOTS]

We do not provide routers as part of a standard installation.

But due to the large number of customers who called to ask us what their security key was we started offering a new service.

If you buy an airrouter or powerAP from us then for $5 a month we will remotely manage your router (via aircontrol)

Then we can not only tell you what your key is we can change it or any other setting you want remotely.

This has significantly cut down on the numbers of customers who feel it is our responsibility to know what their key is.

We do sell a few of these subscriptions but mostly just the fact that we have such a product helps the customer to understand exactly where the demarc is.

If they don't wan't the router management service then we charge a 1/2 hour minimum to send out a tech retrieve or reset the key for them.


As for the OP. Our most common calls from customers are the result of either POE cables unplugged or router problems.

If UBNT were to make a custom rj45 connector that was held to the POE by screws I would buy them. I know it would be an increased cost but at least the customer wouldn't unplug them.

[WHT]

If you buy an airrouter or powerAP from us then for $5 a month we will remotely manage your router (via aircontrol)

If UBNT were to make a custom rj45 connector that was held to the POE by screws I would buy them. I know it would be an increased cost but at least the customer wouldn't unplug them.Yup...When you attach a monetary cost to something, people will back off.

You could cut off most of the tab on a jack such that it requires a thin blade screwdriver to unplug it.

[wifi_guy]

This is why we tell customers, "we give you everything you need for 1 connection/computer, if you want more than 1 computer online at the same time OR if you want to be wireless throughout your home, you will need to purchase a wireless router". This trains the customer that it's their "gear" and they need to manage it.

Today, most routers come secure already with the passphrase printed on the bottom.

[treichhart]

I have been playing around with a though lately and that though is if customer buys a router they would need to contact us for programming or they can get a router from us during the install and no need to program it since it will have all the settings.

[WHT]

I can tell you, the longest support calls - like over thirty minutes - are from people using their own wireless routers. We have our own screen shots and instructions for most gear in PDF files the customer can download from us, or they can pay for a truck roll.

[WisTech]

Google is their friend, if that doesn't work, they can pay for a truck roll. If they buy a new router and want me to program it and leave their network settings on a sticky note for them, they can bring it by the office and I'll do it for free. Amazing what "free" does, lol.

Keep in mind, either way, I tell them these are YOUR network settings for YOUR router... DO NOT LOSE THESE, if you lose the passphrase, you won't be able to add a new device to your network and you'll have to bring the router in or schedule a service call to get it reconfigured. End of story. =)

[MichiganWISP]

Why not just disable the reset button in the GUI?
And as long as their POE is the standard one without a reset button you should be good.

I wasn't talking about ubnt equipment, I provide/install a cheapo TPLink router to act as an AP for inside the house. I include it in the standard install cost. Lets me know all customers have the same equipment, and makes sure their wifi is secure so neighbors can't steal. Have had very few problems, though on the next batch I think I am going to hot glue the reset button. I already clip the tab on the cat5 connectors.

Overall it's better customer service when I manage that for them and make it as foolproof as possible, versus them trying to set up a router on their own and not being able to help them when they call with questions. Also gives me more visibility into their network for troubleshooting & monitoring usage.

[wifi_guy]

I can tell you, the longest support calls - like over thirty minutes - are from people using their own wireless routers. We have our own screen shots and instructions for most gear in PDF files the customer can download from us, or they can pay for a truck roll.

If they can plug into the "modem/PoE" and get online, then it's not our issue. We will try to assist with the router, but those calls last maybe 10 minutes.

[rockhead]

If they can plug into the "modem/PoE" and get online, then it's not our issue. We will try to assist with the router, but those calls last maybe 10 minutes.

Your customers can find some way to plug into a modem/POE and make something work , I should hire them to handle calls from my customers !

[nickalot]

Just had to handle a call from an individual who in not yet a customer.

As WISP's, we are generally first to market in un-served communities. That is the market we focus on. Once competitors come in, especially nationwide providers who enlist deceptive marketing practices like 2 year price protection (aka contract) and loss leaders for the first 90 days... Internet and phone for $9.99... fine print reads $9.99 for each service plus equipment rental, applicable taxes, fees and surcharges for the first 3 months, then regular price for the remainder of contract.

Something a consumer believes they can get for $10 turns out to $35 for a few months and then $70 until they pay out the term. And they call us all cocky thinking we should match the $10 deal.

So the guy who called today has a vacation home in a community that we service. It is in the California desert over 40 miles from anywhere. Guy expects the $19.95 Cox 50Mbit deal and he wants it installed today so he can stream Netflix on his new 1080p net TV all weekend. Foreign accent and massive attitude. I told him to get a Verizon data card as we can't schedule the install until after Christmas.

Verizon delivers about 400k out there. AT&T, 200k. Sprint, 80k. Latency worse than satellite.

Anyway, we only do commercial in areas where there is competition from wireline or cable. The reason comes down to the fact that we answer the phone when customers call. Residential customers figure that out and call for any reason, not just those related to Internet access. They call and ask how to set up voicemail on their phones. They call to ask how to post photos on facebook. They call and ask for phone numbers that they could (&$@K google!

Commercial customers are willing to pay a substantial premium for what amounts to managed Internet access, management the residential customers expect for free because that's what they saw on TV. And when they know they aren't going to be put on hold they call and call.

Sadly, in part due to the deceptive advertising of others we can't simply be that friendly neighborhood business any longer. We have to be painstakingly specific and bill for every little thing. Wireless routers are provided for an xtra $3.99/mo. If they put their own in they are on their own. We only support the connection, we won't talk to you about your computer or router issues unless we're billing for it. We tried it the other way and 90% of our time in the field and on the phone was spent dealing with issues unrelated to our Internet access product. All uncompensated.

[nickalot]

Nice old lady just called. Can't get online and "it worked earlier".

Tech logs in to radio, no link on Ethernet.

Tech; "What did you unplug"?

"My phone".

"oh, that's not my phone, I unplugged the wrong thing".

Tech: "uh-huh, have a nice day".

Everyday we get a new one.

[WHT]

nickalot...

I see a lot of deceptive, err...disingenuous advertising.

1) $34.99 per month, but mouse print says for first 3 months only.
2) $5 modem charge, only mentioned in mouse print.
3) 10 Mbps speeds, but it's only "up to".
4) 3 Mbps tier that barely pulls down 300 Kbps in the evenings.

And then the perks...
1) Five free email accounts. In the past three years, one..*ONE* person asked if we had email accounts. Seems like everyone uses AOL, Yahoo, or Google mail now.
2) $9.99 VoIP phone number. People with pre-pay cell phones and limited minutes use Skype and may not want to pay the extra $9.99 for a "phone line".

One 3.65 WiMax provider draws a ten mile radius circle and offers $59.99 for 10 Mbps. Actual users of the service say it is slow, and when people say it is slow...that, to me, says they are getting less than 1 Mbps service.

I'll get around on how we'll have to educate users.

[treichhart]

Well see once I go with powercode I will have all my customers use my email in order to check and pay bill online.

[nickalot]

Elderly lady calls this morning with a sense of urgency in her voice.

"I don't know what happened, there was a funny word and the set just went off".

Tech: "What is 'the set'"?

"It's a new laptop"!

Tech: "Is the laptop's power supply plugged in"?

"Uhhhhh"?

[ajaywi]

If your having problems with email server. Look into Host Gator. hostgator.com they are amazing to work with. never had a server issue.

We started with just their small baby croc server at $14 and worked great for the 300+ email clients we had, then upgraded to a reseller account and now host websites. 1..2 less things I need to have in shop to work on. and it comes with CPanel.

Also if you have the reseller account you also get free WHMCS billing system... Found it works well billing WISP customers as well..

[Headbang]

I can tell you, the longest support calls - like over thirty minutes - are from people using their own wireless routers. We have our own screen shots and instructions for most gear in PDF files the customer can download from us, or they can pay for a truck roll.

I know this is an aging post, but it's been a busy summer.

To deal with router we have a simple rule "bring it in". Then we quickly re-program in 5mins. BUT I also have a full on retail shop.

If I truck roll to fix any piece of equipment of the clients, then it's $80/hr 1hr min.

[WHT]

One WISP requires a $50 or whatever pre-payment on credit/debit card before they role a truck for customer related problems.