Competeing with DSL?

[mohave_steve]

I know that when faced with competition you have to be able to offer a benefit superior to your competition to attract customers. Generally cost, features or service level are the points I would look to in marketing WISP service.

In areas where the local telco is offering DSL has anyone had significant success competeing? If so, what are your selling points?

I look forward to your input.

Steve

[WHT]

With the telcos aggressively rolling out 3 Meg for only $29 per month...We don't even try, unless its development of $100,000 homes full of work-at-home yuppies that has DSL, but only at the slowest speeds like 512 K, 756 K, or 1.5 Meg.

[netmaster]

DSL's have slow(er) uploads.
DSL need a rather expensive to build copper cable networks. We provide our wireless services mostly in areas, where DSL providers do not want or can't build their cable networks.

[WHT]

DSL's have slow(er) uploads.

For most users, that's not an issue...they are just glad to get anything better than dialup.

DSL need a rather expensive to build copper cable networks.

That's the nice part about copper plant...its ALREADY in place. You don't have to build out anything new.
40 Mbps Fiber-to-the-wall - You have to build out an entirely new outside plant.
40 Mbps DSL - You just have to splice into the existing right-of-way fiber and drop a new DSLAM in place every mile or two.

We provide our wireless services mostly in areas, where DSL providers do not want or can't build their cable networks.

And in that case, you're not competign with any incumbent braodband provider, unless its another WISP.

[netmaster]

For most users, that's not an issue...they are just glad to get anything better than dialup.

believe or not, it is, especially with low end DSL connections, where upload is 128 or 256 kbps. I think, any Wisp can also provide service, better than dialup. My slowest offer in urban areas is 2M down and 512k up. DSL providers lowest offer is 1M down and 128k up for approx. same price. Things going bad at higher speeds, when 16M down and 768k up, with phone and 55 IPTV channels included, costs only about twice more, then my 2M/512k. But we can provide also 2M/2M or 4M/4M and DSL provider can't at least not for same amount of money. DSL provider usually have big organization, what is slow to response to customer needs. We can install connection with few hours after ordering, they do few days on even a week. We can provide services out of the box, whatever customer needs, they can't because do not find such line in the pricelist. etc, etc...

That's the nice part about copper plant...its ALREADY in place.

yes, IF it is and IF it have proper cable, not some 40 year old. Cable itself, and work to install it, is getting so expensive in these days, that even big DSL providers do not want anymore to install their cables into new areas with privat houses or any other places with lower customer density. If copper is already installed, then is almost impossible to compet with it. DSL is so much cheaper to provide at higher DL speeds.

[rodneal]

Remember - go where the consumers are - psychologically.
We start at $9.95 per month and go up.
We tell our customers to start low and if it's not fast enough then call and we will increase their bandwidth.
Most of our customers have increased to the range we want them in all by themselves and we are the good guy - we did not over sell.
The ones that have not - so what 256/128 is not gonna kill us but keeps coming in every month.
The word of mouth is great to!!
Of course there are other factors too but you gotta be in the psych of your market.
Rod

[fudge]

The best thing is that you can offer shorter periods, and people don't have to have yearly or 2 years contract to use the service.

[pcampbell]

I wonder if there is any point in trying around here. We have FIOS and DSL and cable. You could get Verizon DSL if you tried very hard, the cheapest one is around $20 a month but it's like they try to hide that (like cable tries to hide "broadcast basic cable" which is $9 a month, most people think "basic cable" is the bottom line service and is $30.

I am in IT guy and could not see any point in getting the "fast" FIOS, when the cheapest is $40 a month (what I have now) and very reliable and fast. I don't even bother with the speed tests, it's fast. I can do VOIP all day long while working and never a hiccup, stream movies, etc.

What I want to try to discover is the people who don't need $40/month internet, and need something immediately rather than wait 3-4 weeks for FIOS.

Around here though,the thing is, the $25 difference each month between $15/month I could provide and $40 for cable/fios, etc. or even $60 is a trip to the coffee shop. Not sure if anyone cares about that money. But I guess there is one way to find out...

[WHT]

I'd gather as much pricing info as you can. And also, telco and cable usually don't charge for the CPE and install labor which you would have to charge or eat it yourself. From what *I* have seen (this varies in oterh markets), but it takes more than a $20 or $30 difference just to get anyone interested.

Rory is making out pretty good because he offer better reliability over the incumbent telco DSL market.

[rconaway]

I used to think we couldn't compete against wireless but the reality is that the Capex is now so low that not only are people interested in reduced cost, they also really appreciate a personal touch in the tech support area. I'm now more agressively moving towards going head to head against them in as many areas as possible. The big question is still vertical assets.

[WHT]

Sticking that bird nest on the top of your tower is going to make it hard to stack more sections on the tower to increase your vertical assets, right? :D

[rconaway]

Did I mention we had Falcon for lunch today? Taste like chicken.

[MaximumISP]

owch.. I hope you at least tried to train him to attack motorolla gear first
...before resorting to the BBQ.....lol

[rconaway]

He is actually up there guarding the NS radios so no Motorola gear tries to sneak on the tower.

[WHT]

Here is the bird on top of his tower

http://telecomanddata.com/Rory/images/DSCF1673.JPG

[thewisperer]

I see a market where I am at $20.00 a month for 1 meg
Low install fee (loco or nano) and no contract.
dsl or cable is $28.00 for 512 and 1 or 2 gig cap
I can offer a cap of 50 gig if I want to. My connection is unlimited.
Comments?

[WHT]

I've never heard of a DSL with a 1 or 2 Gig cap. But there is some noise about a 50 or 60 Gig cap in the future for some telcos.

[MaximumISP]

Up here ma Bell is implimenting Caps on pretty much all services now
varying from 2 Gig -100 gig per month
http://bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpInt_NewAccess.page?int=isp_sa_vr_012009_bellinternet_isplandingpg_ban1_on_en

[WHT]

Gee-SUS....every time you turn around they are driving a stake in the heart of the internet. Here in the states the competition is so fierce, providers keep upping the speeds and dropping the prices.

Oh...wait. Ma Bell has no competition up there. Unless the WISPs take them on head to head with a ahem..."Maximum" effort.

[MaximumISP]

Lol....Yup
Bell's policies are actually helping us out

No caps and no blocking are my BIG selling feature
In this age of You tube, other streaming media and P2P
(which is an unenforced gray area here)
customers especially those with kids are much more savey
now

[rconaway]

I'm head to head with comcast and qwest in the same area and we have about 10% of the users. Most people would rather pay less than $20 per month for their Internet and get good technical support rather than pay $30-$50 per month for faster speeds they never use. If someone tells us they are downloading movies, we point them to Qwest or Comcast.

[WHT]

With the economy like it is (lots of the oil patch is folding), I'm really tempted to roll with $19.95 or $29.95 for a 2 Mbps connection...but I'm afraid of leaving too much money on the table, when the competition #1 is getting $59.95 for 2 Mbps and competition #2 is getting $79.95 for 2 Mbps.

Someone told me people are not likely to change services if they are comfortable with what they have. but after visiting various cellular and internet forums, you'd be surprised how many people will jump to another provider for a 10% or $10 savings per month.

One WISP was banking on their 10 Mbsp end-point delivery, but what I'm seeing the compelling reason is reliability. I never here people say they are looking for a faster, less expensive, or high cap service...they are looking for reliability.

Thank you for flying RantAir...you may now exit the plane.

[rconaway]

Ha, I understand. I always believe you sell on quality or price. If you can do both, more power to you. However, if you ever play risk or army, it's much hard to displace the encumbent than it is to start new. Quality won't do that if they have any semblance of performance. People are too lazy for that. Simultaneously, even if some of the customers have problems, let's say 10%, that's all quality gives you a shot at. That's where price comes in and it needs to be a price that kicks them in the teeth.

[DieselPower]

The biggest thing around here is CUSTOMER SERVICE. If you answer the phone when they call, even at 9:30 at night, tell them you will be there first thing in the morning, word gets around and people will dump their 3meg DSL connection, and come running for a 768K. Another thing that really helps is running a caching nameserver on each CPE, and a full blown Bind9 at your network center. This gets page load times down even just by milliseconds, but it impresses people when they try it. Pages load faster on my network than they do on my competitors 3 meg DSL, and guess what the bad thing is? I'm feeding my network with that very DSL!

It's little things that are the sparks, poor customer service on your competitor's end are the dry leaves, and word of mouth is the wind, --a wildfire is sure to follow.

[thewisperer]

I agree service is very important. Speaking to a live person also....

On another forum, I just read,with proper shapping,

300 customers on 10 meg fiber...at 20/month that 6 grand: fiber cost 1 granc

leaves a good margin

[pcampbell]

How do you guys handle the installations. Here, IMO an external antenna is going to be key.

On the customer end, not sure of the legality of drilling holes and running wires at peoples houses without being a licensed contractor(?). Do you make them DIY then do the pointing for them or???

[DieselPower]

We use an external grid dish antenna, and a satellite dish type mount. $ lag screws into the eaves somewhere, and then we run gray shielded CAT5 and try to follow trim and siding lines, vinyl siding is nice, you can just tuck the cable up under a joint:D Keep a LONG 1/4" drill bit in your kit, for going thru walls and floors. If you are going to drill thru a wall, stay at least 4" off the floor, and no higher than 10 inches, if the house was wired to code you won't be hitting wires that way.

As far as needing a license, My guess is it is not required. Non of the satellite installers are licenced that I know of. You could go ask a few of them on the Wild Blue forums...

I think DIY would be a big turn off myself. Get a good toolkit together, crimpers, connectors, cabling, screws, nails, hammer, cordless drill, cat5 clips, etc. and practice on a few of your good friends first. Each install you do will be better, and then when you get the process refined so it goes smoothly, you are ready to out and do some real customers. But practice so that when you show up, you look just like the pro you are! It's no good to have to go back to the house 3 time because of stuff you forgot... You want to give the image that you are one of those unaccessible, but friendly professionals that your local telco installers are. And yeah, if your 30 lb antenna and box come crashing off a 3 story house and hit someone in the head, or their car, you will probably get sued, so do it right, and don't take shortcuts. Make sure your screws are actually going into a structural member, and nut just vinyl siding or something stupid like that. use the right stuff for the job and you'll be good.

[WHT]

DieselPower...

Good points.

I have like 20 pages all about installs..from grounding, tools you should have in yer truck, mounting on poles, roofs, etc...waterproofing. Its all kinda sorta in a manual format. I could have it ready by mid-week in the Wiki.

[mobilexpi]

DieselPower,
How can you install the DNS caching on each CPE??
Best regards

[DieselPower]

I'm not sure if it's possible with AirOS, and I have never done it with OpenWRT but I'm sure it can be done there, have a look at DNSmasq.

We use Mikrotik RB411 on all our CPE's up until a week ago when I finally tarted deploying some Bullet2's. Gotta love the RB's and RouterOS, but hate Mikrotik themselves.... It's real easy if you are running RouterOS. My recommendation is to run an RB with RouterOS and an XR series card for all you APs, and then use whatever you like for you CPE. That way hotspot, radius, etc are easy to implement, and you can run a DNS cache on each AP.

[rconaway]

We carry $1,000,000 general insurance policy. 300 installations later, we haven't had a single mishap. We do however, now carry a pretty wide variety of tools, wall mounts, etc... We are hoping that the window mounts alleviate this a little.

As for DNS, our authentication server automatically handles redirects of new users.