Help Choosing Equipment.

[Vulgar_Display]

I'm in the planning stages of getting myself connected to a WISP that has been in my area for quite some time. After not having broadband for years I decided to do some research to try and get a decent connection to the house. We didn't have clear line of site to the tower so we were unable to get their service years ago because we are on the opposite side of the town from the tower with many homes and trees in the way.

Now here is where my ignorance to wireless networking makes me feel stupid. We have a rental house on the south side of the town that has a clear shot to the tower(about 1.5 miles with nothing whatsoever in the way). That rental is about 100 yards away from this house and has a clear line of site to here. Now I know that it is possible to bridge the connection from the rental to here. I was planning on buying 3 nanostation 2's, one to access the tower at the rental, and then two to create a bridge to our home.

Now with the pending release of the Nanostation Loco I'm not sure what to do. I was thinking 2 loco's for the bridge, and then a regular nanostation 2 to connect to the tower would be my best bet. I want to ensure the best possible connection to the tower and I'm not sure if a Nanostation loco with it's lower dB antenna would provide the reliability I'm after. I figure it should definately do the job for a 100 yard bridge. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Your forums are amazing by the way. They are what made me decide to buy your products to get my problem solved.

[WHT]

This thread may be helpful, http://forum.ubnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5436&highlight=

You could use the Locostations all around. Getting a signal from your local WISP with a clear LOS shouldn't be a problem with the Loco's 8 dBi internal antenna.

[Vulgar_Display]

Another question I have that illustrates my ignorance of wireless technology is what kind of latency can I expect with these units? I'm really hoping to be able to get constant pings under 100ms with very little packet loss.

In college I was a competitive gamer and now that I've moved back out into the middle of nowhere I haven't been able to play anymore. I currently have a sprint EVDO card, but the best ping I can achieve with it is 150ms, and that really doesn't cut it with reaction based FPS games.

Again, thanks for the help, and I can't wait to order my equipment, and get everything set up.



Oh, if I have a linksys WRT54G set up in a window at one house, would a NS2 loco be able to connect to it 100 or so yards away, or would I be better off going with my original plan of setting up a more directional bridge between to NS2L's?

[WHT]

This links might help:

Why online gaming will be the biggest casualty if ISPs prioritize packets
http://ramprate.wordpress.com/2006/11/17/every-time-you-vote-against-net-neutrality-your-isp-kills-a-night-elf/

Online PC gaming with wireless internet
http://www.techspot.com/vb/all/windows/t-7883-Online-PC-gaming-with-wireless-internet.html

Question about 1st and 2nd hop ping times...and gaming!!
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18298401-Question-about-1st-and-2nd-hop-ping-timesand-gaming-

Wireless users, READ THIS!
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,13021249~start=20

[Vulgar_Display]

The antenna's making up my bridge will have a fairly clear line of site, but I have determined that in the summer when there are leaves on the tree's the Fresnel zone may be somewhat obstructed. Not by much, but some. Would a 5ghz radio or a 2.4 ghz radio cope better with the obstruction? I don't know whether to value the better penetration of a lower frequency or the slightly smaller Fresnel zone of the higher frequency.

I'm not sure that it will even matter at such a short distance. I plan on mounting the units about 7-8 feet off the ground so no problem there, but as I said, there may be some blockage from a couple of low branches on a sycamore tree (sparse foliage).

Any other 2.4ghz equipment (routers) will be on the opposite ends of each house in the setup so I don't expect much interference there. Also, when wardriving I only pick up 2 other 2.4ghz networks in this tiny town.

[WHT]

Given foliage over Fresnel clearance, I'd go with 2.4 Gig. How "short" is your short distance"

[Vulgar_Display]

I don't know the exact distance, but I'd say it's about 100 yards. I could walk the distance in about a minute. I can probably avoid most of the blockage by moving my antennas some, but I will have to run more ethernet cable that I originally wanted to.

What is the maximum distance of ethernet you can run before the PoE injector has a significant enough power loss to effect the unit's performance?

Also, do they have a way to defrost themselves? I guess it's not a big deal if I have to do it, but we just got some snow today, and I'm wondering how well they'll cope with it.

By the way, WHT, I appreciate your help a lot.

[WHT]

Owww.....only 100 yards. Might want to try backing down the power levels at both side by 6 dB steps. Find the min and max where performance falls and then use a midway power level.

At 100 yeads, you'll get plenty of signal regardless of foliage.

As for the PoE limit with CAT5e, people are saying the units get flaky at 100 meter. 30 meters isn't a problem. The easiest solution is to use an 18 volt power supply.

[Vulgar_Display]

Now comes the next problem. I can't find anyone that has the nanostation 2 loco yet. Don't think I feel like waiting till the end of december to get this network up and running. Anyone maybe know if a couple have "fallen off a truck" anywhere? haha

If anyone knows where to pick one up at right now I'd greatly appreciate the information.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hey Vulgar_Display,

Nice name reference btw ;) Anyways the units have not hit distribution yet and I have sent all my freebies out. So unfortunately your best bet is to wait, or use NanoStation.

Thanks,

Mike

[Vulgar_Display]

Heh, I figured it was worth a shot. I'll be picked up 3 regular NS2's instead because I don't feel like waiting any longer to have a decent internet connection around here.

Now if I can just talk some sense into this provider. They don't offer a trial period, and want a 2 year contract. I'll be reading this contract with a magnifying glass because I'm not sure I like the look of things so far.

They originally wanted to charge me $400 for equipment, $189 for installation,$69 activation fee, $49 configuration fee, and $50 for the first months access. I'm not sure what exactly they were smoking, but I'll have a nanostation 2 installed and working for under 100 bucks.... They seem kinda shifty so I feel the need to be very wary of the Terms and Conditions of their contract.

[WHT]

Like I mentioned in another topic,

You can use the Locostation with the internal 8 dBi antenna or the Nanostation with the internal 10 dBi antenna, plus you can add an external 22 dBi or so grid antenna.

[Vulgar_Display]

Since the bridge I plan on creating is only 420 feet will 2 nanostation 2's be able to punch through a lot of vegetation? If they will be able to get a reliable signal through trees at that distance I can skip out on buying expensive outdoor CAT5e to get my bridge antenna's a clear line of sight.

I'm trying to cut down my costs a little bit since I just got layed off and christ mas is coming...

Anyone have any idea how much blockage the NS2 can shoot through before the signal is degraded?

[WHT]

A paper published by John Hopkins University and University of Texas (Austin) came up with a figure of 10 to 20 dB loss though a single tree...and THAT was at 856 MHz.

At the 1998 IEEE, Antennas and Propagation Society International Symposium, a paper was presented showing loss a suburban settings of house and trees. There was a lot of variability.

Bare trees in winter may show as much as 10 dB greater loss with summer foliage.

Other estimates are, through a 150 stand of trees...900 MHz has 9 dB loss, 2.4 Gig has 25 dB loss, and 5.8 Gig has 60 dB loss.

Bottom line is...if you don't have a clear line 0f sight, all bets are off.

[Vulgar_Display]

Which means I'll be doing this the right way, and buying a 100 foot Outdoor rated patch cable, and a couple 30 footers. Now I've settled on having my system set up like this:

WISP/////////NS2 Client Station///////Linksys WRT54G//////NS2 AP/////////NS2 Bridge Mode////////Kyocera KR2 Router

At least there's little room for error with my somewhat limited networking experience. *end sarcasm*

This should be interesting trying to get all the kinks worked out haha.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hey Vulgar,

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks,

Mike

[davey]

They originally wanted to charge me $400 for equipment, $189 for installation,$69 activation fee, $49 configuration fee, and $50 for the first months access.

Wow! $757!!! What the hell is a "configuration fee" anyway?

[WHT]

WISP ~~> NS2 Client Station -> Linksys WRT54G -> NS2 AP ~> NS2 Bridge Mode -> Kyocera KR2 Router

Sounds like overkill, but let me ask this.

WISP - that's you provider
NS2 Client Station - that's your providers client (well, its YOURS by ownership)
Linksys - is that used as a localized wireless AP or just as a hub to connect the NS client and NS ap together?
NS2 AP - backhaul headend to the NS bridged client
NS2 Bridge - backhaul tailend to the NS AP
Kyocera KR2 Router - are you using it for its router functions? Since your bridged, why not use the routing from the Linksys. That way you'll reduce some latency overhead.

[WHT]

They originally wanted to charge me $400 for equipment, $189 for installation,
$69 activation fee, $49 configuration fee, and $50 for the first months access.

That's not just vulgar...that's downright obscene.