Mikrotik excel again

[kijoma]

Hi,


to anybody using routerOS it will be little surprise the latest release 4.7 has serious "how the hell did they release that" bugs and has been withdrawn.


It's a "router" OS.... and they released it with DHCP and DNS broken..


Add to this nstreme and queues have been broken for many revisions, 802.11n is a mess and its not hard to see how the small issues with the relatively new UBNT Airmax kit can seem so minor in comparison.


how many years have they been doing this and still they release it like its an amateur shack project from a back shed..!


feel free to grizzle on their forums, they ban me the instant i register :)


:ubnt_banana:

[zirculs]

My upgrade/downgrade history:


3.30 --> 4.2 -->3.30 ---> 4.5 --->3.30 ---->4.6 ---->3.30 ----->4.7 this is a four RB links in production and now dchp server in my core router always becomes "RED" in the winbox, I'm tired of beta testing their "stable" release.


Their "n'" technology is perhaps 3 years behind from the UBNT "m" series. You pay for the license but configuring a stable wireless "n" link is a nightmare. A level 6 worth license wiki has not yet been publish there I think...


Say something "nice" in their forum and you will be kicked... once banned their also!

[skyhook]

My upgrade/downgrade history:


3.30 --> 4.2 -->3.30 ---> 4.5 --->3.30 ---->4.6 ---->3.30 ----->4.7 this is a four RB links in production and now dchp server in my core router always becomes "RED" in the winbox, I'm tired of beta testing their "stable" release.


Their "n'" technology is perhaps 3 years behind from the UBNT "m" series. You pay for the license but configuring a stable wireless "n" link is a nightmare. A level 6 worth license wiki has not yet been publish there I think...


Say something "nice" in their forum and you will be kicked... once banned their also!


Use you 802.11n card on ROS?

[zirculs]

I use R52Hn on a regular antenna (single pol.), ROS v4 supports n cards. Unlike the bullet M you simply attach it to the antenna and voila you can have a "100 mbps" throughput. I really got the hard time on ROS to make it a single chain works on a low to medium signal links.

[skyhook]

I use R52Hn on a regular antenna (single pol.), ROS v4 supports n cards. Unlike the bullet M you simply attach it to the antenna and voila you can have a "100 mbps" throughput. I really got the hard time on ROS to make it a single chain works on a low to medium signal links.


If you use 802.11n card, why downgrade to 3.30 ROS?

100 mbps: link distance, signal and TX Power?

[zirculs]

If you use 802.11n card, why downgrade to 3.30 ROS?

100 mbps: link distance, signal and TX Power?


The upgrade/downgrade I'm referring in my previous post were supposed to be on RB750 only because of the new feature, but ROS v4 seems have problems with ARP (1st rb750 can't even ping the last rb740 on same subnet) so we try to upgrade also rb411 in my links as shown below... but still the same until v4.7 was release which was resolved already.


rb750 -->rb411(r52h, 19dbi rootenna) -- 9 km(-72 signal average, 5Ghz link)-->rb411(r52h, 19dbi rootenna) --->rb750G(my core router) -->rb411(r52h, 24 dbi grid)--2.5km(nLOS, -60 signal ave., 2.5 gHz link) -->rb411(r52h, 16dbi yagi)


The wireless "n" thing I'm referring are two different rb411 with r52Hn in 21 dbi rootenna, because our current 15-20 mbs throughput seems becoming congested already during peak hours. So we decided to test using the 802.11n cards but its seems OK at the lab but will always disconnect even when I tried to test the bandwidth in a low (-75 & below signal) and that is 9 km apart.


BTW, we have other links that uses bullet m5 on 25 dbi grid 7 kms apart, -65 signal and 65 mbps actual throughput.

[skyhook]

The upgrade/downgrade I'm referring in my previous post were supposed to be on RB750 only because of the new feature, but ROS v4 seems have problems with ARP (1st rb750 can't even ping the last rb740 on same subnet) so we try to upgrade also rb411 in my links as shown below... but still the same until v4.7 was release which was resolved already.


rb750 -->rb411(r52h, 19dbi rootenna) -- 9 km(-72 signal average, 5Ghz link)-->rb411(r52h, 19dbi rootenna) --->rb750G(my core router) -->rb411(r52h, 24 dbi grid)--2.5km(nLOS, -60 signal ave., 2.5 gHz link) -->rb411(r52h, 16dbi yagi)


The wireless "n" thing I'm referring are two different rb411 with r52Hn in 21 dbi rootenna, because our current 15-20 mbs throughput seems becoming congested already during peak hours. So we decided to test using the 802.11n cards but its seems OK at the lab but will always disconnect even when I tried to test the bandwidth in a low (-75 & below signal) and that is 9 km apart.


BTW, we have other links that uses bullet m5 on 25 dbi grid 7 kms apart, -65 signal and 65 mbps actual throughput.


Thanks for the infos.

Good ;)

[jcrites2008]

Recently someone tried using wireless n with nstreme and WDS on and supposedly it makes it work pretty good. There have been numerous success stories trying that setup and I haven't seen one person saying it won't work. I haven't tried it myself, but before I read about that setup I tried and tried to get it to work and couldn't hardly get 20mbps. It was awful.

[trisc64]

Recently someone tried using wireless n with nstreme and WDS on and supposedly it makes it work pretty good. There have been numerous success stories trying that setup and I haven't seen one person saying it won't work. I haven't tried it myself, but before I read about that setup I tried and tried to get it to work and couldn't hardly get 20mbps. It was awful.


I can confirm it does work - we can pull 65Mbps TCP over a 3km link using 2 R52n in 18dBm rootennas. Latency is good too. Not bad for a single pol setup.


Tested using jperf and FTP file transfer.

[jcrites2008]

Your just using a single antenna on each side? That's not bad.

[kilos]

MikroTik RouterOS version 4.9 released!


Changelog:

http://www.mikrotik.com/download/CHANGELOG_4


Torrent files:

http://www.mikrotik.com/download/routeros-ALL-4.9.torrent


Regular HTTP download:

http://www.mikrotik.com/download.html

[kijoma]

:icon_twisted:


ha haa


they release 4.7 with serious flaws, they withdraw it (i did email support), they release 4.8 as a fix, and now 4.9 a day later to fix another serious show stopper.


how many years have they been doing this?


Microsoft <> Mikrotik - Similar sounding name, similar software release methods..


:ubnt_banana:


Upgrading seems something you only do with their kit some months after a version has been released, by then you will know if it is yet another show stopper.

[kijoma]

Say something "nice" in their forum and you will be kicked... once banned their also!


hey i took the test, got the certificate from em, got recognised as a valued contributor to their forum then because i dared to point out problems they proceeded to ban me, remove all my post history and when i re-joined they IP banned me


That is how they treat a customer with over a 1000 MT units in service and a certified consultant.


Suffice as to say we only now use MT for non wireless routing functions, Ubiquiti fills every other role, and does it damn well!

[jaimie]

I only managed to make one post over there and I was banned. It was in their pictures section. My picture had an RB450G in a small enclosure and had a UBNT Poe next to. They told me I was baned because I posted pictures of their competitions equipment.

[kijoma]

hi,


That seems to be the case, extremely defensive about showing Ubiquti product in their forums. hardly surprising though as the "product" that ubiquiti produce on the wireless side especially is far superior to anything they make.


Perhaps if they could get their heads out of their respective butts and realise their strength, their only strength is routerOS and instead of alienating customers and potential customers by banning them if they even mention Ubiquiti they could encourage it. The ubnt kit is excellent but like all good radio kit, it needs a good central router system, Mikrotik seem to afraid of the competition to see where they are going wrong.


If Ubiquiti bring out an equiv of RouterOS then Mikrotik, with their surly and rude support will be the first people to lose Kijoma as a customer. Mikrotiks attitude to you/me and others who dare hint at the U word on their forum will ultimately provide the driving force required to make the need for a similar product to RouterOS to be made.


Its only linux after all, somebody just needs to make a compatible wrapper for the kernel and away we go..


Cheers

[WHT]

What would happen if I posted a picture of a routerboard and a UBNT wireless card?

Mikrotik - Latvian for "clutch of prissy little queens"

[WHT]

BTW...Version 5.0 broke several things from 4.x

[Chairborne Ranger]

I can't imagine a single reason to upgrade to the "Latest and Greatest" version until other people have had a chance to let it bite them in the ***. Operating systems, service packs, software versions, firmware versions.... the list keeps going. Never be the first one to stick your hand down the snake hole.

Unless the new software has a feature that I am dieing to have, I typically wont touch it. Hell, I am still running 3.2 on my x86 boxes.

[colebert]

http://www.ubnt.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=24361

:icon_lol:

[doush]

RouterOS is a great product. Think this business without RouterOS ! It will be a hell.

I would think twice before commenting ruthless about these guys.
At the end, both UBNT and RouterOS complement each other.

[Sirhc]

RouterOS is a great product. Think this business without RouterOS ! It will be a hell.

I would think twice before commenting ruthless about these guys.
At the end, both UBNT and RouterOS complement each other.

I personally like using Cisco Routers at all my towers, and an ET/BWMGR for shaping at my head end, but www.etinc.com can be just as big of a jerk(Dennis), in his mind he walks on water and feeds the mases with his brilliance. All be it a pain to deal with him he sure does have a nice product.

[Sirhc]

I was just setting here at home board this morning and since we were talking about bandwidth control/routers I decided to check for software updates for my BWMGR and noticed since it is a nice day outside for this time of year that internet usage is extremely low so I decided to do a speed test at home and WOW!

:ubnt_banana:

[doush]

Nothing comes close to Mikrotik in terms of functionality/price.
I dont understand why all this hate to these guys who give you a fully functional router for 40$.
Kijoma, you should forget the banning thing and give us more unprejudiced comments. We may have a lot to learn from you.

Sirhc;
Having a Cisco at each POP is insane dude. You probably have a lot of funds there :)

[Sirhc]

Sirhc;
Having a Cisco at each POP is insane dude. You probably have a lot of funds there :)

Actually you can pick up Cisco 1811 routers from eBay for around $500 or less. It comes with 2 Fast Ethernet ports and a built in 8 Port 10/100 switch that you can program each individual port as a separate Fast Ethernet port if you need more then 2 ports for in and out back haul links.

We have recently started upgrading to Cisco 2800 series routers only because we have some back hauls now that need GB ports. You can pick 2800 series routers up for around $1000 or less on eBay.

I love Cisco "Routers" because you almost never have to reboot them, you set them up and forget about them. I literally have routers that have not been reset for 2 years or more.

Of course Cisco wireless gear is another story, ubnt kicks their butt!

The ETINC/BWMGR appliance is a bit pricey, and you better be a Linux/BSD guru because support is non existent other then to have Dennis tell you that you are an idiot and it's not his fault, you "must" be doing something wrong. Then a month later he releases a new IOS that fixes that problem.

If UBNT ever built a router I would definitely consider trying it out as I am a huge ubnt fan and would rather give my money to Robert and his gang then Cisco!

[doush]

So you are ready to try a new untested Router software from UBNT, but do not want to try tested and funcitoning RouterOS.
This really doesnt make any sense to me.

There is a router for WISP industry and it is RouterOS. Also there is a RAN for the WISP industry which is AirOS. These are pretty known standards since %99 of the WISPs are operating this way.
thats why we dont have to reinvent the wheel

[colebert]

Nothing comes close to Mikrotik in terms of functionality/price.
I dont understand why all this hate to these guys who give you a fully functional router for 40$.
Kijoma, you should forget the banning thing and give us more unprejudiced comments. We may have a lot to learn from you.

Sirhc;
Having a Cisco at each POP is insane dude. You probably have a lot of funds there :)

Because their wireless cards suck and they don't make much effort to help non-MT cards work properly with their software now that they are in the card business. That's why I complain.

Did you read my link?

[WHT]

Cisco gear carries a lifetime warranty, so I don't have a problem picking up anything off eBay.

UBNT's RouterStation hasn't gone anywhere. WISP operators want a system that ready to go out of the box or with a minimal basic learning curve, they don't want to have to compile their own code.

Mikrotik excels with their Router OS and their RouterBoards. No argument there. Support is abysmal and inconsistent. You might get some basic questions answered in the forum, and some really basic ones are ignored; like why does the the package file list still show an earlier OS list?

I get the impression Mikrotik's RF card design team is still at the garage inventor stage, not anywhere near what UBNT has on staff.

Mike Ford said UBNT reached out to Mikrotik, but Mikrotik was not receptive.

[Sirhc]

Mike Ford said UBNT reached out to Mikrotik, but Mikrotik was not receptive.

Hell I thought he said they threw ubnt out when they tried to approach them....(BIG MISTAKE).

If I was Mikrotik I would have jumped at the chance to integrate with ubnt. But in their defense ubnt at that time was not as BIG as they are now, but that is still no excuse for their nose in the air attitude!

[heviejob]

RouterOS is a great product. Think this business without RouterOS ! It will be a hell.

I would think twice before commenting ruthless about these guys.
At the end, both UBNT and RouterOS complement each other.

True. I would like to see a similar product from ubnt so that its a one stop shop.

[heviejob]

Nothing comes close to Mikrotik in terms of functionality/price.

Sirhc;
Having a Cisco at each POP is insane dude. You probably have a lot of funds there :)

It comes down to the guys you are serving. I did my networking using cisco gear and syllabus but I run mikrotik coz of of its price and functions not to mention I don't cover high end clientele so RouterOS will suffice in my case.

[jp498]

Cisco gear carries a lifetime warranty, so I don't have a problem picking up anything off eBay.


Last I knew, Cisco had a 90 day warranty and if you wanted the time of day from them after that, you had to get a smartnet service contract. That's why we ended up with HP switches instead of Cisco equivalents.

Cisco do make quality stuff, but not having legal access to new software, and their sometimes high power consumption has kept me away. They are also a popular target for counterfeiters on Ebay, and Ebay is where to shop for cisco parts rather than buying new. I guess if all the ports are integrated, counterfeiting isn't a concern.

As much as people like to whine MT is complicated, it's a lot easier than Cisco for firewalling, with ciscos's inverted netmasks, access lists for everything, etc...even if you never use winbox for MT.

I've got in service 1 cisco router, 1 juniper router, a couple Mikrotik PCs, and an uncountable quantity of routerboards in service.

When I started in 1995 I had a Morningstar router, then went to a Livingston IRX, then a PM3, then a linux PC, then a Cisco, bigger Ciscos with MT internally, and now a Juniper facing the Internet with MT internally.

[kijoma]

Nothing comes close to Mikrotik in terms of functionality/price.
I dont understand why all this hate to these guys who give you a fully functional router for 40$.
Kijoma, you should forget the banning thing and give us more unprejudiced comments. We may have a lot to learn from you.

Sirhc;
Having a Cisco at each POP is insane dude. You probably have a lot of funds there :)

Doush means something over here :)

I dont have prejudice against Mikrotik, i did the training, got the certificate, bought a load of their kit.. they then banned me from their forums without explanation.

The refused to let me distribute their product in the UK (kind of glad now), their support staff are at best rude and arrogant.

Their methods of release testing seem to involve a room full of monkeys, they have cost me 1000's in lost man hours and downtime due to their shoddy R52H cards, flakey firmware etc..

The only reason we upgrade firmware is in hope they fix the bugs from the last shoddy release. 4.11 has bugs that haven't been fixed for months now, not even fixed in 4.12 as they treat customers with contempt.

As somebody else said, if Ubiquiti brought out multi port router boards perhaps with PoE on all ports for pass through (so we can just plug in radios directly etc..), a modular linux OS like routerOS with the basic stuff and an API to start with then add more modules later or invite others to collaborate on modules then we would have a single source for all the kit in no time at all :)

[doush]

Our business is providing services and generating income by delivery of Internet Services. It is not our concern to mess with APIs and develop custom stuff which probably wont work.
WISPs are not developers and probably most of us dont have enough funds coding.
MT does this job very well and Im sure there wont be a competior for them soon in Routing business.

Well,
again they may be rude, arrogant and not pleasent but who cares really. Their product works and is a core element in my Network.

[kijoma]

well duh..

WE use MT for routing still because they DO have an API, all our accounting is done automatically via that API along with our other API's and code..

It works.. as long as we don't upgrade into one of MT's many firmware release **** ups. they tend to change functionality without documenting it..

The rude and arrogant thing is very important, if a supplier can be that rude and arrogant to you their customer then this must also reflect in their own procedures and how they treat their suppliers too.. Tranzeo lost us as a customer before MT for the very same reason. rude and unhelpful support and ultra buggy show stopping firmware releases.

I am sure there will be a competitor soon , they are only packaging linux up and selling it. all that differentiates is hardware (boards) and winbox.. Customer service and support are certainly not defining elements.

[yeow]

MT MAC telnet is one of the good features and also their EoIP.

[doush]

As far as I know, Layer2 MAC-Telnet managment is not even available in Ciscos.

[gfinney]

The rude and arrogant thing is very important, if a supplier can be that rude and arrogant to you their customer then this must also reflect in their own procedures and how they treat their suppliers too.

I am a fan of the MT products but for routing only and use UBNT for the wireless side. I agree that the arrogant behavior will be the kiss of death for MT. You cannot treat customers the way they do and not expect that some company will step up an offer a competing product. Slightly higher price and lower features will not matter as long as it works.

[WHT]

Like I've said it again and again,

Mikrotik...Latvian for clutch of prissy little queens.