Sheilded Ethernet Cable VS Outdoor UV Protected Cable

[Sleeze]

I'm faced with this situation:

Installing dual point to point links between two buildings.

I cannot find Outdoor Sheilded UV Protected Cat5 in my country, so I'm left with Cat5 Outdoor rated, dual Jacket UV Protected Cable.....

Should I go for the Shielded Cable or for the Outdoor Rated Cable?

What are the advantages of one over the other?

Thanks Guys

[Dave-D]

If your radios are inside the buildings--
say on a window--you can do without
shielded or outdoor cable.

If your radios are up in the air, you
must have shielded FTP cable, to reduce
chance of extraneous voltages. They
could interfere with the signal or even
destroy the radios.

If your radios are outside, you should
have outdoor rated cable, so the sun's
rays don't destroy the jacket. That
would let in water and contaminants.

If you can't get outdoor rated shielded
cable, get shielded, and plan to check
(and probably change) it every year
or two. Have fun! Dave

[Sleeze]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Yes the radios are gonna be placed on Poles outside buildings. On one of the buildings the pole is 20ft high, so I'm sort of playing with fire without shielded cable....

Am gonna go for the sheilded cable as you suggested I guess.

Thanks again!

[JustJoe]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Yes the radios are gonna be placed on Poles outside buildings. On one of the buildings the pole is 20ft high, so I'm sort of playing with fire without shielded cable....

Am gonna go for the sheilded cable as you suggested I guess.

Thanks again!

If you are in an area where drip irrigation is common, the hardware store will carry 1/2" black flexible PVC tubing. It's UV rated to the extreme since it needs to carry pressure and usually is in direct sunlight. It makes a perfect conduit for 1 or 2 STP cables. :)

[spirited]

20ft without shielding isn't an issue as much as where that 20ft is (on top of building or under an awning)... UV is good to have, but any outdoor jacket should have that, UTP or STP.

Great cable that we have had success on towers with is, Belden 1300A.
Its the best for the price that I have seen. But more important than STP, is a good CAT5 surge protector. That were you can get zapped.
Doing STP with, with surge protector and a good earth ground and your set, minus a direct hit : )

Trust me, I am from the lightning capital of the USA...

[Dave-D]

Spirited, does that mean Florida?

What is your favorite CAT5 surge
protector?

I have to point out that your
Belden 1300A costs three times
as most other similar cables. Dave

[jp498]

Shielded cable (with one end of the shield grounded) will provide a bit of a faraday cage protecting the cable from lighting induced surges nearby. Doesn't mitigate a direct hit of course.

Shielded cable will also reduce interference you might cause to 2m amateur and 150mhz range commercial and public safety radios and scanners that might be nearby. Ethernet causes a fair amount of radio noise.

Non-outdoor cable will likely get UV damaged and be apt to crack after a year or two. Once water gets in via the cracks, it will flow indoors and ruin your connector and POE.

[spirited]

Yes, FL
Altelicon have been good, 600SSC from Moto and ALPU seem to be very popular too.

Have a suggestion of something that is as good as 1300A and easy to work with, for cheaper? I am all ears.

[Jayson]

http://www.jack2rack.com/network-bulk-cable/cat5e-bulk-cable/outdoor-cable/cat5e-direct-burial-outdoor-cmxt-cable-shielded-24awg-with-water-proof-tape-4-pairs-1000-black.html

[Ron]

Should I go for the Shielded Cable or for the Outdoor Rated Cable?


Use outdoor cable and ground the system using a ground wire instead of using the network cable.

[Dave-D]

I disagree with Ron. Always use
shielded cable for external elevated
installations to reduce noise and
transients on the CAT5 leads.

If you wish to use a ground wire in
addition to the shield that is fine. Dave

[kijoma]

I advise ext grade cat5/cat6 for external runs, if you are up a 20 ft pole then run the cat5 up the center of it and bring it out by the aerial..

We tend to use cat6 external for infrastructure as it is better from a DC resistance and durability side too.

Connect the pole to ground!, earth that sucker and you will be fine..

Most "VHF" noise from cat5 cable is fed from the device attached to the end of it, the cable itself is balanced and the peak frequency of 100mbps is about 30MHz, not VHF.

So even screened cat cable can radiate rubbish if it is not low impedance earthed and isolated from the "computer" that feeds it.

[webcoaster]

What type of ends are you guys using on the shielded cable and what do you think of flooded cable on towers or elsewhere. Any issues with flooded cable and POE.

Were looking to change out some cable runs on a water tower that will be painted in the Spring.

-Cheers

[webcoaster]

Thanks for the link great prices,

http://www.jack2rack.com/network-bulk-cable/cat5e-bulk-cable/outdoor-cable/cat5e-direct-burial-outdoor-cmxf-cable-poly-gel-filled-flooded-24awg-4-pairs-1000-black-1.html

[Dave-D]

Use shielded RJ45 connectors on the shielded cable.

Some people like these 'EZ-RJ45' connectors:
http://platinumtools.com/connnectors/100020.html
...because it's easy to get the leads into the guides
when you're up a tower in the wind. I'm about to
evaluate these myself. But they're expensive.

Anyway you slice it, putting shielded connectors on
an oversize exterior-rated CAT5 cable is not a lot of
fun. There are some tricks; practice before you climb!

Be sure to use good CAT5 FTP cable; there have been
reports of 'junk' imported cable with steel or aluminum
cores, and high resistance. Test end-to-end if doubts.

But I don't agree with Bill that CAT6 has any
advantage for durability or resistance--unless you
specifically use the 23ga version (not all are). And
the resistance difference is truly minimal.

My supplier says they don't advise flooded cable, and
provide a dry double-jacket instead. WHT has a thing
about gel-filled cable, because he says it migrates
and attracts dust contamination. It's messy for sure!

Cable filled with 'magic powder' that gels and seals the
cable when water penetrates has been mentioned. I
have no experience with it; probably less messy.

So why did they put a water tower in a spring, and
then try to paint it? They'll need waders now... Dave

[webcoaster]

Thanks for your reply, I thought the same thing, 10 bucks say they will paint it in June or July.

I think that 5E is enough, can you provide a link to your supplier on the dry double-jacket also I like to look into the powder filled cable as well.

I think that the EZ connector might be the way to go moving forward, getting the twist as close to the plug is A+ and the EZ connector might just be the plug to do it.

-Cheers

[Ron]

Thanks for your reply, I thought the same thing, 10 bucks say they will paint it in June or July.

I think that 5E is enough, can you provide a link to your supplier on the dry double-jacket also I like to look into the powder filled cable as well.

I think that the EZ connector might be the way to go moving forward, getting the twist as close to the plug is A+ and the EZ connector might just be the plug to do it.

-Cheers

We have been using a lot of the jack2rack cat 5e outdoor non flooded cable for installs on exterior walls and towers. Not a single water or UV related failure after a year in the tropical sun and rain.

I just wish they made it in white!

With standard RJ45 plugs (monoprice) we have yet to see a cable run at below 100 Mbps because of the twist being too far.

[Dave-D]

But Ron--if I understand your other post--
you refuse to use the required FTP (shielded)
cable and shielded RJ45 plugs.

Unshielded CAT5 cable is easy to install. Dave

[miahac]

Shielded cable (with one end of the shield grounded) will provide a bit
Non-outdoor cable will likely get UV damaged and be apt to crack after a year or two. Once water gets in via the cracks, it will flow indoors and ruin your connector and POE.

HAHA, all you need is to bring that cable down to the ground, put a 1 foot diameter drip loop and slice a 1/4" piece of the jacket off at the bottom of the loop, then that POE will last until the TP gets cracked and brittle and the wires short LOLOLOL

[Dave-D]

Miahac and jp498, you guys are both in
the United States. Use FTP outside-rated
CAT5 cable. And ground both ends--else
there's no path to earth. Dave

[Ron]

But Ron--if I understand your other post--
you refuse to use the required FTP (shielded)
cable and shielded RJ45 plugs.

Unshielded CAT5 cable is easy to install. Dave

I'm afraid you didn't understand.

Given the choice, as the OP has, between:
1) FTP indoor cable
2) UTP outdoor cable

I would pick UTP outdoor cable and provide ground via other means.

Of course, the ideal choice is FTP outdoor cable, but that is not available to the OP.

[Dave-D]

I guess I do misunderstand. I thought you meant
you also use unshielded CAT5 here in the States.

I still disagree with you; I believe the continuous
shield is so important, I'dd go for FTP cable and
either put it in a PVC tube, or change it every
few years if I had to.

That's not great, I admit, but a shield beats a
plain ground wire by a lot. Dave

[WHT]

Shielded cable, regardless what its called - STP or FTP, meets the U.S. National Electric Code recommendations (or legal law if codified into municipal electrical codes) for signal conductors in a continuous metallic enclosure for bonding to ground, and therefore not required to have a station protector before the cable enters a single or two family housing.

Depending on the amount of U.V. exposure and precipitation in the area, indoor cable may last over a year to a few years. If its in the shade, it could last many years.

[Ron]

Shielded cable, regardless what its called - STP or FTP, meets the U.S. National Electric Code recommendations (or legal law if codified into municipal electrical codes) for signal conductors in a continuous metallic enclosure for bonding to ground, and therefore not required to have a station protector before the cable enters a single or two family housing.

Does any of this even apply to 12V cables?

[Ron]

That's not great, I admit, but a shield beats a
plain ground wire by a lot.

I disagree. A ground wire has much less resistance than a shield. It is, without a doubt, a better path to ground.

Other than grounding the antenna and electronics/radio, which the ground cable does, what good does using a shielded cable do (when not working on a multi kilowatt transmitter)?

[WHT]

Does any of this even apply to 12V cables?If the 12 volt cable has a foil or braided shield, then yes it would be considered a shielded conductor.

Regardless of what the conductor carries, data or power, it still has to have a station protector or fully shielded before it enters a structure.

[WHT]

I disagree. A ground wire has much less resistance than a shield. It is, without a doubt, a better path to ground.

Other than grounding the antenna and electronics/radio, which the ground cable does, what good does using a shielded cable do (when not working on a multi kilowatt transmitter)?A ground wire does not provide shielding, where shielded cable does.

[kijoma]

hi,

We don't use STP/FTP external and do not get any issues. if you are going to run 20 ft of external grade cat5 up a pole then drill a hole next to the radio and feed it up the inside..

that screens it from lightning etc.. the short bit between the radio and pole you could put ally tape or metal braid over if you like.

The pole itself will need to be attached to a good earth (such as the buildings bonding system).

for cable run across a metal roof or other metal structure then adhesive ally foil tape works wonders.

the only time we use screened cat cable is indoors through long runs of cable trays (adjacent to power and a loads of other misc noise generating cables).

[WHT]

I have yet to see anyone else use STP for their CPE installs. I suppose I'm the only one that does that. At least I'm in full city building and electrical code compliance.

[Ron]

A ground wire does not provide shielding, where shielded cable does.

Duh. Obviously.
The question was not what a shielded wire does, the question was what good comes of it.

Here is the question again: what good does providing shielding do (when not working on a multi kilowatt transmitter)?

[WHT]

Saves you an average of $20 per install.

[rmichael]

I have yet to see anyone else use STP for their CPE installs. I suppose I'm the only one that does that. At least I'm in full city building and electrical code compliance.

You can use UTP cable when entering building as long as the wall is masonery or cable goes through metal raceway or bushing and is protected with fused protector.

[Ron]

Saves you an average of $20 per install.

Using a more expensive cable saves you money on the install?
Great logic.

[WHT]

You can use UTP cable when entering building as long as the wall is masonery or cable goes through metal raceway or bushing and is protected with fused protector.Yes and no...you're mixing two different recommendations .

If the UTP is enclosed in a metal raceway or metal conduit (and that includes foil shielding) as it runs along an outside wall, then it does not require a separate station protector before it enters the building. If it is not fully enclosed, *then* you need a station protector.

Using a more expensive cable saves you money on the install?
Great logic.Yup! More expensive STP means you don't need a $30 to $40 station protector. Typical 55 feet of STP and an UL listed copper grounding nut is $12. UTP and protector is $35 to $45.

And using #17 ga copper clad steel wire is much less expensive than #10 copper.

[Ron]

Yup! More expensive STP means you don't need a $30 to $40 station protector.

This station protector you speak of, why is it needed in an install?
"The book says so" is not a good enough answer.
What good does it do?

[WHT]

In virtually all municipalities in the U.S., they have codified the National Electrical Code's recommendations, which make the recommendations a legal requirement.

Edited to add...
So my answer to your question, "What good does it do? " is - "To comply with the law."

[wvnet]

We also use STP on all customer installs, with shielded connectors. We're in a high lightning area, and induction on a long run of UTP will kill ethernet ports on the radios. And as WHT said, it's code...

Warning out on cheap Cat5 - we got several boxes of 'TWDOK' cable and it's almost 2 guages lighter than it's sold as, and so flimsy the wire will often break inside the connector when crimping. Also loses a LOT more POE power, a 15v POE fails to hold up a bullet under load, at the end of any run over 50ft.

[jacobsuter]

I've been using STP for about a year now with very good success. Previously to that I was using 'filled' cable (icky-pick... they call it icky for a reason) which basically a big massive hassle per install (my touchpad doesn't work with my finger covered with ickypick) that did no good. Before that I used indoor cat5 which was a huge mistake, as we've just got too much UV exposure down here...

The indoor cat5's problem was Ethernet port failures due to nearby lightning and depending on installation location (how much time per day the device had full sunlight) the outer jacket on the cat5 failed, which allows water to get in the cat5, which causes issues with the ethernet and often the water ends up making its way down the wire to either get in the cat5 connector at the poe injector causing a failure, or leaking water onto the floor or whatever. Its not that amusing to hear a customer tell you that your cat5 is peeing on their rug.

After that I moved onto using black outdoor-rated filled CAT5E. This cable is very damage resistant and I've had zero exposure-based problems from using it, and since its filled with the MOST ANNOYING SUBSTANCE ON EARTH theres no chance of an incontinence issue. The downsides of this cable is it was as bad if not worse with lightning issues, and it was filled with the MOST ANNOYING SUBSTANCE ON EARTH.

Now I'm using STP Cat5E. This wire has an outer UV-stable jacket, a 24-gauge-ish stranded (tinned copper, I believe) 'drain wire' with a mylar/foil shield layer below that. Inside of that, its basically exactly like indoor cat5. Just regular gray indoor PVC ethernet cable. With this wire, and the use of proper shielded cat5 ends (I can't seem to find these for less than 30c/ea [deepsurplus.com]) I have had absolutely ZERO problems with lightning.

On tower installations I've found it works best to follow the Motorola R56 standards for coax grounding with the STP. Ground it every 50 ft. Since the cat5 is much lighter than typical 'hardline' I personally don't believe theres a need for outrageous clamping. A few wraps with 14 gauge copper wire, a complete water-proof tape-up, and bonding to the tower ground seems to work for me. I also make sure to cut a drain into the bottom of the loop. If water gets in, you want it to get out before it reaches your cat5 connector.

At least, that's my limited experience in East Texas.

[WHT]

After working with "Icky Pic" flooding compound for the past thirty-five years, I can certainly agree is one of the two most yucky substances to deal with. I use a can of mineral sprites to wipe as much off and learned how to keep one hand or fingers free of it while doing cable splicing.

And that stuff migrates into everything. I worked "peds" - telco slang for those light green above ground pedestal canisters or boxes where the stuff migrates UP into the cables. We called it the "pedamagnetic" effect.

The new powder filled cable was a neat break-through.

[Ron]

In virtually all municipalities in the U.S., they have codified the National Electrical Code's recommendations, which make the recommendations a legal requirement.

Edited to add...
So my answer to your question, "What good does it do? " is - "To comply with the law."

I thought so.
This being an international forum, US municipal law does not mean that ANYTHING needs or should be done a certain way.

Basically, shielding ethernet cable is technically useless 99% of the time.

[WHT]

When was the last time you read the Canadian Electrical Code?

"Basically, shielding ethernet cable is technically useless 99% of the time." - Then don't use it.

[jcremin]

Here is a huge reason for me to use shielded cable... I'm quite often installing my antennas near existing TV antennas. Unshielded cable quite often results in interferene on their TV reception (even more drastic now that everything is digital). I've had a lot less problems with the shielded stuff.

AND, it has less problems with lightning, or picking up interference from fluorescent lights, power transformers, etc. It's a little more rugged too.

[Alan87i]

My experience so far (I'm an beginner do it your self learned my self) I have set up 25 Tranzeos and only 2 Bullets so far.
I have yet to use shielded cable , the longest run is 85 feet with 3 radios each on two 65 foot towers and 3 radios all over the place on a roof top.

If I was to add more I would consider it. Just for interference purposes, having a lot of cat5 on the same pole could start to cause problems.
As far as lightning goes and I have been affected over and over from TV's to 3/4's of the powered items in a home. The shielded cable won't help much . Twice a hit on a pole rode in the coax through the modem and toasted everything. The board on a switch had melted traces. All the devices were grounded directly and that saved the Tranzeos but not the switches and computers.

My solution witch don't apply to every installation out there is to pull the plug when the storms come. I know this is not going to work for the remote locations. I just want to toss it out there for the regular Joe that might figure their equipment is just fine during a storm because they used shielded cable.

During a storm nothing is fine or protected enough. I have seen a CB radio melted as well as all the electronics in a car from a hit while driving in a storm. Almost killed the driver. And Cars are on Rubber yes. LOL

[fadel]

This is my solution to protect UBNT equipments against lightning. In the images can be seen as I did, I passed the ftp cable within a pipe (locally called "superpipes" and is used for cold or hot water installations). Pipe is embedded metal, can be seen in the other image, is flexible and protects all the cable. I had no problems with lightnings and I have a lot of equipments.

I think this is the best solution possible, the metal layer is thicker than any layer of FTP or STP cables and behaves as a Faraday's cage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage