Rocket M only certified as an AP with 7db omnis?

[newmax]

Hello all, we have been using nano units for a while and really like the new M series, but i got worried about some info from broadband reports forum.

Apparently the rocket M was only certified as an AP with 7db omnis????

Can UBNT clarify this?

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r22891808-Can-UBNT-clarify-FCC-certification-of-Rocket-M

Apparently the RocketM is only certified with a 7db omni for PTMP?

Straight from FCC Docs:

This equipment is required to be professionally installed

The device has been designed to operate with the antennas listed below and having a

maximum gain of 30dBi. Antennas not included in this list or having a gain greater than

30dBi are strictly prohibited for use with this device. The required antenna impedance is

50 ohms

2x2 Point-To-Point Use

Ubiquiti RD-5G-30

Ubiquiti RP-5G-24

Ubiquiti AMS-5G-20

1x1 Point-To-Point Use

Ubiquiti AG-5G-30

2x2 Point-To-MultiPoitn Use

Ubiquiti O-5G-7

Operation is restricted to Point-To-Point use for antenass other than the Ubiquiti O-5G-7

listed above.

.

[netsplice]

Apparently the rocket M was only certified as an AP with 7db omnis????



Maybe you should read the certification letter again. The M5 FCCID was certified for upto 7db omni, 20 db sector and 30db dish, along with a couple of other antennas,

so if you plan on using an omni then yes you can only use a 7db omni. however the rockets are designed to go on the back of the ubiquity sectors that are up to 20db. Why you would deploy .11n with airmax in a non sectorized enviro is far beyond my imagination. and I have omni's in my network. But they are small .11g ap's with sub 15 users per ap. At 300-350 / sector why wouldn't you sectorize anyways.

[WHT]

The M5 FCCID was certified for up to 7db omniOK, so what is the problem?

Why would anyone use an omni antenna for AirMax in the first place ????

In other words, you can't get MIMO out of any existing omni antenna, but you can with a sectored antenna.

[netsplice]

OK, so what is the problem?

Why would anyone use an omni antenna for AirMax in the first place ????

In other words, you can't get MIMO out of any existing omni antenna, but you can with a sectored antenna.

That is what I was trying to say... it doesn't matter that it was only a 7db omni. You would be crazy to use an omni.

[newmax]

Operation is restricted to Point-To-Point use for antenass other than the Ubiquiti O-5G-7

listed above.


The above statement clearly says if you want to use the Rocket as a AP, you can only use omni antennas, all other antennas are for PTP only

[george]

That's exactly what it says if you take the time to read it, and some of the documentation accompanying the cert process makes quite a big deal out of using only a 7dB omni for point to multipoint. I'm not worried as I guess we're going to see an update to take the sectors into account at some point, Ubiquiti is very good at the certification process, in fact much better than many manufacturers!

The user manual is quite clear:

This equipment is required to be professionally installed
The device has been designed to operate with the antennas listed below and having a maximum gain of 30dBi. Antennas not included in this list or having a gain greater than 30dBi are strictly prohibited for use with this device. The required antenna impedance is 50 ohms
2x2 Point-To-Point Use
Ubiquiti RD-5G-30
Ubiquiti RP-5G-24
Ubiquiti AMS-5G-20
1x1 Point-To-Point Use
Ubiquiti AG-5G-30
2x2 Point-To-MultiPoitn Use
Ubiquiti O-5G-7
Operation is restricted to Point-To-Point use for antenass other than the Ubiquiti O-5G-7 listed above.

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1153963&native_or_pdf=pdf

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1153962&native_or_pdf=pdf

[netsplice]

I just finished reading all of the FCC manual and certification posted online. Looks like I stand corrected.

So Ubiquity... What is your approach? is PtMP sector certifications in the works?

[netsplice]

it looks like the m2 series is certified ok.. it is just the m5 and I would hope that once they get the regulatory domain info into the next firmware update that they can cert the new antennas...

[Ron]

I think this has something to do with FCC EIRP restrictions for PtMP operations in the 5 GHz bands. I believe much higher EIRP is allowed for PtP than for PtMP.

WHT knows this stuff. I'm sure he'll fill us in shortly.

[rconaway]

I can't imagine a situation where you would use the rocket with an omni. I would think the Bullet would be the best choice and yes I'm considering the 2x2 issue. What omni is the Bullet 2M certified with?

[WHT]

Ron is correct, you can use much higher EIRP for 5.8 Gig PtP.

However....

UNII-1 (5.15-5.25 GHz) is indoor only.

UNII-2 (5.25-5.35 GHz) isrestricted to 30 dBm, period. This includes both indoor/outdoor, and PtM and PtP.

UNII-3 (5.725-5.845 GHz), which is channel 149 to 165. is still restricted to 36 dBm EIRP for PtM, just as 2.4 Gig is. But for PtP, you can run as high as 52 dBm EIRP.

[netsplice]

What omni is the Bullet 2M certified with?
From what I can tell on the FCC website and I don't have a bullet to confirm FCC ID. Is that the bullets and pico's are under the same fccid B2. They are only certified with a 6db omni.

If someone has a bullet you can lookup the FCC ID to be sure.

[WHT]

Confusing is an understatement when you try to reconcile all the in and outs of allowed EIRP. It all eventually makes sense.

The best way to address your confusion would be to tell us what part is confusing and we can go from there.

[netsplice]

the 6dbi is because the output power of the m2 reaches 30dbm + 6dbi = 36db max eirp (ptmp) but if you incress your antenna i understand you have to decrees your output power. but what you guys are talking about is confusing.

This is correct in a sense... you have to understand that you can only use the highest power antenna that was certified with the radio. so if the certification was with a 6 db omni that is the max power omni you can use doesn't matter if you lower your output power to be within max eirp.

At least that is the way it was explained to me.

[rconaway]

I have reconsidered the Rocket omni issue and do believe that it has huge potential with dual omni's for some situations depending on how well the Mimo functions with dual vertial antennas 3 inches apart. However, since it has RP-SMA connectors, there is no way to stick the antennas on top and assume the jacks are strong enough to handle any windload. that is going to be the limiting factor even if the Mimo function worked.

However, the 6 or 7dBi limitation is the same one that we have on the bullet. It would be far more productive to support up to 15dBi for the uses I envision.

[opampca]

What omni is the Bullet 2M certified with?
From what I can tell on the FCC website and I don't have a bullet to confirm FCC ID. Is that the bullets and pico's are under the same fccid B2. They are only certified with a 6db omni.

If someone has a bullet you can lookup the FCC ID to be sure.

Bullet M2 ID is SWX-B2..... same as Bullet 2... ???

[AccessITNet]

I wonder if Mike could clearify this issue but i dont see any post from him on this subject. If 6dbi omni is the max period what is the max for sectors and where can i find the fcc certification on the bullet M's

[rconaway]

The problem as I understand it comes with the filtering on channels 1 and 11. I don't think 11 is as much of a problem since the radio goes to 14 in Europe for the 2.4GHz products. However, I don't see a difference between filtering with lower power and higher antenna gain.

One of my personal pet peeves is advertising maximum power at reduced modulation instead of the power output at maximum modulation. SkyPilot was the first company that I caught doing it along with the failure to mention that it's bandwdith numbers were UDP, not TCP/IP.

The audio amplifier industry finally came to an agreement that power output should come with frequency response, speaker load, and distortion. The cheese car amp companies used to say 200 watts which basically meant a 1KHz tone being generated as someone shorted out the amplifier leads as the amp blew up. Realistically, you would get 20 watts at anything short of total distortion.

I think it woud be productive to see max PTP TCP/IP rates and UDP rates with a single stream. It won't loook as good in the marketing material but I think it has a lot of value and would keep people from being suprised.

One thing that did amaze me though was latency. The M series are showing ping times of 1ms. That's faster than pretty much everything else I work with including radios as expensive as $30K. I haven't tested with security turned on yet though but it's about twice as fast as the current series which was no slouch at 2ms. Compared to a SkyPilot, BelAir, or Tropos which are 3-8ms or more, pretty impressive.

[netsplice]

Bullet M2 ID is SWX-B2..... same as Bullet 2... ???

that is the same ssid of a pico 2 also. so my assumption would be that it is the same as the bullet 2 also...

[netsplice]

I wonder if Mike could clearify this issue but i dont see any post from him on this subject. If 6dbi omni is the max period what is the max for sectors and where can i find the fcc certification on the bullet M's

they are all under swx-b2 or swx-b5
this link will take you to the b2 certs

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=945300&fcc_id='SWX-B2'

[opampca]

mmm..but they are totally different products !!!

[agsweeney]

I had noticed the same thing with Nanostation2 and Nanostation2 Loco being marked with the same FCC ID as well.

[netsplice]

mmm..but they are totally different products !!!

it doesn't matter about the product it only matter about the radio. and the bullet and pico's are the same radios. with the same software... one just has a different connector on it.

[opampca]

mmm..but they are totally different products !!!
it doesn't matter about the product it only matter about the radio.
Would that mean that the Bullet M2HP (89$) has the same chipset at 180Mhz as the Bullet 2 (39$) with 20dbm radio, not the 400mhz chipset with 28dbm radio ?
They both have the same FCC ID !!
http://www.inter-node.com/ubiquiti/labels.jpg

[WHT]

Would that mean that the Bullet M2HP (89$) has the same chipset at 180Mhz as the Bullet 2 (39$) with 20dbm radio, not the 400mhz chipset with 28dbm radio ? They both have the same FCC ID !! Well..Yeah, they could use the same FCC ID as all the FCC is concerned about is the transmitter emissions of the radio. If two different chipsets have identical in band and out of band RF emissions, then they would be the same.

I ponder if antenna diversity would fall under the regulations of the "new" FCC Diversity Czar (I say "new" as it would imply there was an "old" one and there never was one in the first place).