11 Miles Link with Bullet M

[osnet]

Hi,

Well all my network are based on the following:
1. PtP Osbridge & Mikrotik
2. PtMP Ubiquiti AP WDS & Motorola Canopy (comercial clients) I will start to using Ubiquiti when they integrate layer 2 proxy and VLAN in the web interface.
3. For routing I am using Mikrotik (RB493AH) with OSPF and I will be migrating to MPLS & VPLS with Mikrotik

We recently buy 16 Bullent M and use the first two to for a 11 Miles Link.

We swap our connectorized OSB 5XL HP 10Mhz Channel 5410MHZ to Bullet M using the same GRID 29dbi WIDEBAND Antenna.

With the OSB we have 12Mbps Half Duplex - 10Mhz because the WPOP site have a lot of interference there. Latency 1ms, 2ms

We try to use the same channel but the Bullet M5 doesn't have compliant test jajaja....

With 5600mhz up to 5800Mhz we get like -58 of signal but not a good performance. So with changed down channels 52..Mhz and take a look.

Station WDS Registered on the AP WDS

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo1.jpg

Station WDS Radio - One of the modulation change a lot for the interference of the WPOP. I need the 5400Mhz band..

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo2.jpg

Bandwidth test from Mikrotik to Mikrotik RX, TX and Full Duplex

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo3.jpg
http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo4.jpg
http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo5.jpg

AirMAX Enable
Packet Agregation Enable

The latency with the packet agregation it's a pain in the *** 2ms , 10ms, 8ms, 15ms.

We will be posting later other configurations.

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello,

You say there i a lot of interference in the area. Please step this unit down to 20Mhz then 10Mhz to see the speeds. If you have heavy interferece, then with a 40Mhz channel (shown in your screenshots) you will have issues. Also I would suggest leaving the packet aggregation at default settings and make sure AutoACk is on.

Let me know how it goes.

thanks,

Mike

[osnet]

Mike,

I know that 10Mhz channel will take less spectrum. I use the 40Mhz channel to try to get more bandwidth and in my test with 20Mhz channel I don't get anything acceptable for me.

In 10Mhz I get a lot of problem with the connection to the remote station wds equipment also, I try to use a lot of different channels with the same problem.

I use the channel 5285Mhz -20Mhz

I get in RX - 18Mbps up to 24Mbps Avg 23Mbps

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo8.jpg

I get in TX - 10Mbps avg.

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo9.jpg

The signal at the AP it's the following:

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo10.jpg

At the Station WDS Site

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo11.jpg

The ping with the AUTO ACK works really better than put fixed.

http://www.ittekpr.com/test/photo12.jpg

I have other link to test and like 14 more M5.

The other links have 18 miles that I will be installing the Wednesday and other link of 7 miles.

[osnet]

Hi,

I try different channels and hte best channel 5285Mhz in 20Mhz TX 10-14Mbps and RX 20MBps. I really need the 5400Mhz band any changes? Any "compliant test" ?

I will be changing the GRID from Vertical to Horizontal POL to see what I can get most of the link in the tower are Vertical like always.

Any ways the we can use 5500, 5505, 5510 increment of 5Mhz but using a 20mhz channels. To use more center channels.

Thanks a lot Mike,

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hello Ivan,

The Compliance Test mode is coming with the first update to the firmware.

Also, from what I see the CCQ is very low on your links at 18%. Can you post the screenshots of your advaced tab of the web gui?

Thanks,

Mike

[Barlennan]

Hi Ivan,
I had the same problem, I maxed out at ~25Mbps too, didn't matter what channel size etc. Then I turned of Airmax and the speeds jumped right up to 50Mbps for a 20mhz channel and 100Mbps for a 40mhz channel. And since no one knows what Airmax is yet anyway might as well try turning it off if you haven't.
Good Luck

[WHT]

Leave the AirMax on. It solves the problem of ___________ very effectively.

[Ron]

Leave the AirMax on. It solves the problem of ___________ very effectively.

Is that problem big enough to give up a 300% transfer speed increase?

[avantwireless]

The product is out there, why the heck can't you just say what AirMax does!$#!@!@#!!!! Right now, from what was just posted, it just throws away bandwidth. It better pay my taxes to be worth what it just gave up.... And some mysterious smoke ain't gonna cut it..

[WHT]

why the heck can't you just say what AirMaxMike won't let me yet. The Non-Disclosure-Agreement thingy.

[MaximumISP]

I have to agree we have a pile of them here
with clients asking all kinds of questions about its features daily
and I cant answer any of them ....
I am a listed reseller for heavens sake :(

There is no big secret anymore when a product is
already in retail channels and clients hands
We all need to know what the hell it is / does

[osnet]

Hi,

I turn off the AIRMAX and the performance was a little less of bandwidth. Looks like AirMax works better in a noise environment.

I am testing today in my 19 mile link my tech are working align the link. =)

[Barlennan]

Hi,
Yeah my distance link isn't noisy. But I just tried the same settings in the lab and couldn't get better results with airmax on again. ~25Mbps. Switching it off bumped the speed right up again. So even in the lab it made things better turning it off... Haven't tried it with anything but AP WDS and Station WDS in bridge mode though, I'll test it with a few different configurations and see if it makes any difference.

[davey]

Mike,

Just my opinion, I don't really care at the end of the day, but when launching new products it would probably be better in future to just come out with the announcement in one go rather than the way it was handled this time. Particularly, if you have beta testers under NDA, they should keep their mouths shut about it entirely rather than be allowed to say over and over again, "Well if you knew about XYZ feature, blah blah, but we can't talk about it because we are under NDA." Well guess what. You just did talk about it over and over again. Their smugness will be moot when the announcement is made and they will be left with no "advantage" to gloat about. I wonder what they will do with their time then?

Anyway, love your work, but maybe another approach next time would be more respectful towards your customers and sales channel.

Regards,

Dave

[drwho17]

Right, this product rollout hasn't been textbook. Ubiquity still has the small company working out of their garage type attitude, choosing their pals for beta testers (I learned I got poor feedback this way).

Ubiquities products are good, pricepoints are good, but the business acumen side needs some improving. It's like Wozniak is running the company by himself, without Jobs making sure the product is promoted and actually available for people to buy.

[UBNT-Ben]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback.

We will provide details and updates on Monday. There are reasons why additional details have not been made available as of yet, which will be understood/clear when we do our release on Monday.


Regards,

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Right, this product rollout hasn't been textbook. Ubiquity still has the small company working out of their garage type attitude, choosing their pals for beta testers (I learned I got poor feedback this way).

Ubiquities products are good, pricepoints are good, but the business acumen side needs some improving. It's like Wozniak is running the company by himself, without Jobs making sure the product is promoted and actually available for people to buy.

I choose my beta testers by who can deliver resultes and get back to me in a timely matter. Also I choose them by how much the contribute to the community. I have been burned too many times by people saying "Sure ill beta test, send me free gear and ill get right back to you" - 7 months later still nothing from them. Ive heard it all before, and WHT and RConoway have been the most responive people when it comes to beta testing. There NDA stuff is just a joke, its not bieng smug. I do apologize if them bieng casual and bieng light-hearted about the subject is offensive and will have a talk with them about it.

The Announcement was supposed to coinincide with the release of this product but was dealyed due to unforseen circumstances. We are working on getting this out as soon as possible, with a target on Monday-ish

I will see if I can give you the lowdown on AirMax but at this time higher powers then me are not letting that happen.

Thanks,

Mike

[osnet]

Hi, Mike

I have redundants like so I can do a beta test right know I have a 11 Mile Link, 19 Mile Link and the next week I will have a 17 Mile Link.

Let me know if you need another beta tester. I have Mikrotik RB493AH in each WPOP.

=))

[UBNT-Mike.Ford]

Hi, Mike

I have redundants like so I can do a beta test right know I have a 11 Mile Link, 19 Mile Link and the next week I will have a 17 Mile Link.

Let me know if you need another beta tester. I have Mikrotik RB493AH in each WPOP.

=))

Hey Ivan,

Shoot me an email at mike@ubnt.com and we can go through the specifics.

Thanks,

Mike

[rkj]

Right, this product rollout hasn't been textbook. Ubiquity still has the small company working out of their garage type attitude, choosing their pals for beta testers (I learned I got poor feedback this way).

Ubiquities products are good, pricepoints are good, but the business acumen side needs some improving. It's like Wozniak is running the company by himself, without Jobs making sure the product is promoted and actually available for people to buy.

I see the same "pals" criteria to choose beta testers in another company from Silicon Valley called Cisco, which is now listed in the Dow Jones, so that doesn't seem to be related to size.

I share some of your feeling that Ubiquiti could be better at improving customer awareness and market perception, but that's not what beta programs are about. Testing, finding bugs and fixing are they key targets.

[rkj]

duplicate of above

[WHT]

Rory and I are not trying to be smug gits. We did sign an non-disclosure agreement and Mike has asked us not to disclosure certain features for before market competitive reasons. For example, you will notice in my "22 mile link screen shots" thread, I erased the area that would have shown AirMax. http://forum.ubnt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13263

Rory and I have spend an incredible amount of our own unpaid time helping Mike and his developers bring an incredible product to the WISP industry. That reminds me, I have to turn in my taxi fare and airport parking for reimbursement to Mike.

We were selected as beta testers as Mike felt we had the karma it takes to be a beta tester, along with skill sets demonstrated in the forum. It was NOT a selection based on "who you know".

[WHT]

The first leak of AirMax was several months ago when someone noticed a single line reference to an airmax in the change log, and posted a question of what that was.

I mentioned it to Mike and he deleted the post. From that point on, there was never anymore mention of AirMax, until the first Bullet M5 radios were in the hands of the users.
we now have the **** things IN OUR HANDS and STILL no word from Ubnt.Mike's working on getting some info ready. Its not really anything you can configure, like RTS Threshold or Traffic Shaping.

I am assuming it has more to do with the fact that the radios don't seem to be doing what they are supposed to. The "magic bullet" seems to be a dud.It works, but the competitive impact is awaiting the white paper.

[twinkletoes]

Well I'm not under NDA. If UBNT is so secretive then perhaps they don't want OS Bridge and Mikrotik figuring out how simple it is :) I bet Airmax is a combination of disabling carrier sense (which is just a bit flip in the Atheros chip driver) and intelligent RTS/CTS. From what I'm reading here, the units have a way of measuring air delay and intelligently tune RTS/CTS based on that method.

Since this is a first rev, UBNT probably doesn't have their analog/digital conversion calibrated well, so the air delay isn't always accurate. So the best way to use Airmax would be to let it figure out the approximate distance, then hard set the distance with a slight increase until you stop getting packet loss.

Calling this system TDMA is highly inaccurate. I bet the timing is terribly loose, and RTS/CTS is used to approximate the effect of timeslots. A real TDMA system would allow for TX/RX synchronization for all APs on a tower site, and between close tower sites, so the APs don't stomp all over each other. That's what Canopy and WiMax TDMA systems allow for, anyways... That's the only way to get real density on a tower. But if UBNT released a system like that, I'd seriously consider dumping Canopy.

[rconaway]

Dang, I just wrote a 3 paragraph response and the website lost it. I'm not going to repeat it so here is the summary:

1) Sorry for joking around with the NDA. Justin and I joke about everything, nothing special here. Didn't know people were taking it personally. Next time, I just wont' respond. I'm sure Mike can take all the heat himself. He owns a Mustang.
2) Justin and I take ethics and trust seriously. Please respect that.
3) Ubiquiti balances many factors in decisions as a manufactured. Many of which can't be discussed. I would suggest respecting that also and being patient.
4) At least you can reach Mike and Ubiquiti. Try that with any of the large manufacturers when you have these kinds of issues. As a VAR for some of them, I can tell you, it ain't happenin'. I can't tell you the hoops I have gone through just to get them to believe me that their $30,000 radio (three 240 mile round trips) isn't working correctly or finding someone in the company that can tell me what happened to my brand new $20,000 radio that got lost after it's 2 month trip to England because it was DOA.

Please be patient. I'm sure that Mike will provide the information that you are requesting when it is possible. In the meantime, just try the radio with AirMAX on/off on your PTP to see what works until you get an explanation that you are comforatable with.

[WHT]

Calling this system TDMA is highly inaccurate. I bet the timing is terribly loose, and RTS/CTS is used to approximate the effect of timeslots. A real TDMA system would allow for TX/RX synchronization for all APs on a tower site, and between close tower sites, so the APs don't stomp all over each other.Its still TDMA by definition, but its not a sunk (or should I say synch'ed) system with other APs.